Author Topic: NALC/STS Relationship  (Read 8256 times)

Marshall_Hahn

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NALC/STS Relationship
« on: May 10, 2011, 01:58:58 PM »
The question was raised on the NALC Bishop thread as to what might be the effect on the STS if the new bishop of the NALC should happen to be a member of the Society of the Holy Trinity (Societas Trinitatis Sanctae - STS).  It is a good question, and as Pr. Wolfe mentions, really raises a larger question of the mutual influences NALC and STS may have upon one another.  This thread is an attempt to bring those questions here, so that the previous thread may focus on the possible bishop candidates for NALC.

Marshall Hahn

Marshall_Hahn

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2011, 02:13:30 PM »
Let me start by noting that in our Iowa/Nebraska STS chapter, we currently have 6 NALC pastors out of the 15 members in the chapter, plus an NALC pastor who has attended our retreat but has not yet subscribed to the STS rule.  Moreover, those 6(7) NALC pastors serve 9 of the 18 NALC congregations in Iowa.  (Another NALC congregation is in the process of interviewing a member of the STS for calll.)  And, in fact, the NALC Dean for Iowa is an STS member.  So by sheer numbers, the cross-influences of NALC and STS in our area would seem to be significant.  What precisely that will mean for the NALC and the STS, particularly in our area, is a good question, and is the reason for this thread.  What think ye?

Marshall Hahn

Coach-Rev

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2011, 03:38:16 PM »
There is, in my opinion, a very distinct "position" that those who subscribe to the rule of STS share, which defines and delineates them to quite a degree.  The rule does have the ability to refine out a lot of the dross that may or may not exist within a particular pastor, assuming of course that their subscription to the rule is at least accepted, even though perhaps not always adhered to.

As such, I believe that would be a great attraction to some, and especially to congregations affiliating with the NALC.

frluther1517

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 04:15:26 PM »
This thread is an attempt to bring those questions here, so that the previous thread may focus on the possible bishop candidates for NALC.

Marshall Hahn

Nice try for the other thread.....  :P

JMerrell

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 04:51:28 PM »
Since I helped start that conversation, let me chime in about SC.  To my knowledge, there are 4 congregations that have left the ELCA, and none of those pastors are a part of STS.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if more congregations leave and if eventually some members of STS are at NALC churches here in SC.

George Erdner

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 04:58:33 PM »
Since I helped start that conversation, let me chime in about SC.  To my knowledge, there are 4 congregations that have left the ELCA, and none of those pastors are a part of STS.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if more congregations leave and if eventually some members of STS are at NALC churches here in SC.

These are the congregations that have left the ELCA and joined the NALC, so far. There are others who have left the ELCA that I do not have the information on which denomination they joined. Some of these are dual rostered with the LCMC.

St Paul Lutheran Church, Kodiak, AK
St Peter Lutheran Church, Mesa, AZ
St Johnís Lutheran Church, Arroyo Grande, CA
St Timothy Lutheran Church, San Jose, CA
First Lutheran Church, Tulare, CA
St Lukeís Lutheran Church, Colorado Springs, CO
Black Forest Lutheran Church, Colorado Springs, CO
Faith Community Lutheran Church , Longmont, CO
Shepherd of the Hills Lutheran Church, Dade City, FL
First Lutheran Church, West Palm Beach, FL
Christ the King Lutheran Church, Evans, GA
Badger Lutheran Church, Badger, IA
Eagle Grove Evangelical Lutheran Church, Eagle Grove, IA
Marion Lutheran Church (Gunder), Elgin, IA
Trinity Lutheran Church, Ellsworth, IA
Bethany Lutheran Church, Laurens, IA
St John Lutheran Church, Plainfield, IA
Zion Lutheran Church, Readlyn, IA
St Matthew Lutheran Church, Readlyn, IA
Zion Lutheran Church, Ruthven, IA
Norway Lutheran Church, St. Olaf, IA
Ulensvang Lutheran Church, Thor, IA
Old East Paint Creek Lutheran Church, Waterville, IA
Old West Paint Creek Lutheran Church, Waukon, IA
Trinity Lutheran Church, Lewiston, ID
St Johnís Lutheran Church, Flanagan, IL
First Lutheran Church, Kirkland, IL
St Paul Lutheran Church, Metropolis, IL
Zion Lutheran Church, Philo, IL
First Lutheran Church, Pontiac, IL
American Lutheran Church, Rantoul, IL
St John Lutheran Church, Royal, IL
Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, St. Joseph, IL
Immanuel Lutheran Church (Flatville), Thomasboro, IL
St Mark Lutheran Church, Auburn, IN
Peace Lutheran Church, Connersville, IN
St Mark Lutheran Church, Ft. Wayne, IN
St John Lutheran Church (Lake Township), Ft. Wayne, IN
St James Lutheran Church, Greenfield, IN
Antioch Lutheran Church, Hoagland, IN
Freemount Lutheran Church, Lindsborg, KS
House of Prayer Lutheran Church, Elizabethtown, KY
St Matthew Lutheran Church (Bowley's Quarter), Baltimore, MD
Salem Lutheran Church, Bark River, MI
St Paul Lutheran Church, Evart, MI
Redeemer Lutheran Church, Owosso, MI
Cross Lutheran Church, Pigeon, MI
Zion Lutheran Church, Skanee, MI
Immanuel Lutheran Church, Crosby, MN
Grace Lutheran Church, Erskine, MN
United Lutheran Church, Gonvick, MN
Faith Lutheran Church, Mentor, MN
Riverside Lutheran Church, Wannaska, MN
Bethesda Lutheran Church, Wannaska, MN
Trinity Lutheran Church, Ava, MO
St John Lutheran Church, Asheboro, NC
Concordia Lutheran Church, China Grove, NC
Mt Calvary Lutheran Church, Claremont, NC
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Gastonia, NC
New Jerusalem Lutheran Church, Hickory, NC
Miller's Lutheran Church, Hickory, NC
Trinity Lutheran Church, Landis, NC
Bethel Lutheran Church, Lincolnton, NC
St Martin Lutheran Church, Maiden, NC
St James Lutheran Church, Newton, NC
Grace Lutheran Church, Newton, NC
Union Lutheran Church, Salisbury, NC
St Matthew Lutheran Church, Salisbury, NC
Organ Lutheran Church, Salisbury, NC
Christiana Lutheran Church, Salisbury, NC
St John Lutheran Church, Statesville, NC
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Troutman, NC
Lutheran Church of the Atonement, Wilkesboro, NC
Peace Lutheran Church, Devilís Lake, ND
First Lutheran Church, Washburn, ND
Evangelical Lutheran Church, Gallupville, NY
St Mark Lutheran Church, Middleburgh, NY
Trinity Lutheran Church, Ashland, OH
St Paul Lutheran Church, Bolivar, OH
Upper Arlington Lutheran Church, Columbus, OH
St John Lutheran Church, Greenville, OH
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Mansfield, OH
First English Lutheran Church, Marysville, OH
Faith Lutheran Church, Millersburg, OH
St Peter Lutheran Church, Monroeville, OH
St John Lutheran Church, Montpelier, OH
Resurrection Lutheran Church, Port Clinton, OH
Trinity Lutheran Church, Springfield, OH
Grace Lutheran Church, Springfield, OH
Faith in Christ Lutheran Church, Springfield, OH
Grace Lutheran Church , Thornville , OH
First Lutheran Church, Troy, OH
First Lutheran Church, Baker City, OR
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Abington, PA
St Markís Lutheran Church, Butler, PA
St John's Lutheran Church, Fredericksburg, PA
Dunmyer Lutheran Church, Johnstown, PA
St John Lutheran Church, Kittaning, PA
Zoar Lutheran Church, Lebanon, PA
Zion Lutheran Church (Brentwood), Pittsburgh, PA
St Stephen Lutheran Church, Pittsburgh, PA
First Lutheran Church, Rural Valley, PA
St Paul Lutheran Church, Sarver, PA
Mount Union Lutheran Church, Shelocta, PA
Christ Lutheran Church, Shelocta, PA
American Lutheran Church, Castlewood, SD
New Hope Lutheran Church, Hayti, SD
Hayti Lutheran Church, Hayti, SD
Trinity Lutheran Church, Lake Norden, SD
Our Savior Lutheran Church, Menno, SD
Grace Lutheran Church, Menno, SD
First Lutheran Church, Philip, SD
Immanuel Lutheran Church, Whitewood, SD
Lord of Life Lutheran Church, Memphis, TN
All Saints Lutheran Church, Arlington, TX
St Johnís Lutheran Church, Boerne, TX
Welcome Lutheran Church (Formerly Salem LC), Brenham, TX
Hope Lutheran Church, Cedar Hill, TX
First Lutheran Church, Floresville, TX
Holy Ghost Lutheran Church, Fredricksburg, TX
St Peter Lutheran Church, Hallettsville, TX
Immanuel Lutheran Church, La Vernia, TX
St John Lutheran Church, Meyersville, TX
St Stephen Lutheran Church, Portland, TX
Joy Lutheran Church, Richmond, TX
Peace Lutheran Church, Rockdale, TX
St Paul Lutheran Church, Rosenberg, TX
Peace Lutheran Church, Rosenberg, TX
St Paul Lutheran Church, Runge, TX
Our Savior Lutheran Church, Three Rivers, TX
St Paul Lutheran Church, Yorktown, TX
Reformation Lutheran Church, Culpeper, VA
Lebanon Lutheran Church, Lebanon, VA
Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, Everett, WA
St Mark Lutheran Church, Seattle, WA
Zion Lutheran Church, Caroline, WI
Bethany Lutheran Church, Catabwa, WI
Bethel Lutheran Church, Hawkins, WI
St John Lutheran Church, Phillips, WI
Peace Lutheran Church, Split Rock, WI
Immanuel of Lebanon Lutheran Church, Watertown, WI
St Timothy Lutheran Church, Charleston, WV
Zion Lutheran Church, Letart, WV
Christ the King Lutheran Church, Newcastle, WY

I have no way of knowing how many of the pastors of those churches are or were STS.



Dave_Poedel

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 06:13:16 PM »
Well, George, to make your roster useful to the topic of this thread, I assume you are cross referencing your roster with the STS roster from our website.  Then you could get a possible coorelation between membership and influence....assuming each parish Pastor member of the STS was influential in same.....which, fair instance I am not.

Keith Falk

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 06:15:00 PM »
How about this for influence - 3 out of the 4 nominees for bishop in the NALC are members of STS.
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

Charles_Austin

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 06:42:48 PM »
I predict that members of STS in NALC and LCMC will soon discover serious and potentially divisive differences between themselves and large numbers of pastors and people in those emerging denominations.

Marshall_Hahn

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 06:46:37 PM »
I predict that members of STS in NALC and LCMC will soon discover serious and potentially divisive differences between themselves and large numbers of pastors and people in those emerging denominations.

Can you say more?

Marshall Hahn

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2011, 06:57:49 PM »
Since I helped start that conversation, let me chime in about SC.  To my knowledge, there are 4 congregations that have left the ELCA, and none of those pastors are a part of STS.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if more congregations leave and if eventually some members of STS are at NALC churches here in SC.

Judson,

I believe you are partly correct.  To the best of my knowledge there have been 3 that have left since 8/09 - Conway, Lake Wylie, and York.  At least two other congregations have had successful first votes - at least one of those I think is going NALC.  The 3 congregations that have left from SC have gone LCMC.  Two other new LCMC starts have formed.  One a speculative start in Lexington I don't know much about.  The other in Easley is in a place where I believe the members did not take a vote but saw that they were outnumbered. 

We meet most months in Columbia and are very open to fellowship with our ELCA brothers and sisters whether they are staying put for the time being, or if they are considering LCMC, NALC or any other Lutheran body.
Mark Schimmel, Pastor
Zion Lutheran Church, LCMC
Priddy, TX
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ACXXIII, "Your majesty will graciously take into account the fact that, in these last times of which the Scriptures prophesy, the world is growing worse and men are becoming weaker and more infirm."

George Erdner

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2011, 09:06:21 PM »
Well, George, to make your roster useful to the topic of this thread, I assume you are cross referencing your roster with the STS roster from our website.  Then you could get a possible coorelation between membership and influence....assuming each parish Pastor member of the STS was influential in same.....which, fair instance I am not.

No, Pastor, I cross referenced the NALC website's list of congregations against the list of congregations that voted to leave the ELCA, which is a list I have accumulated from information from Pastor Dave Barnhart, "Captain Thin", and individual e-mails and private messages. I did not know there even was an up-to-date database of all of the pastors who are members of the STS, and the congregations that they serve. If such a list exists, I can run it against the list of congregations that left the ELCA.

A search for STS is not helpful in finding the Sts website. If you would like me to do the work involved in cross matching lists, I am willing, but I'd need a link as a starting point.


gcnuss

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2011, 09:11:15 PM »
A search for STS is not helpful in finding the Sts website. If you would like me to do the work involved in cross matching lists, I am willing, but I'd need a link as a starting point.

Try societyholytrinity.org.

J. Thomas Shelley

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 10:22:42 PM »
A search for STS is not helpful in finding the Sts website. If you would like me to do the work involved in cross matching lists, I am willing, but I'd need a link as a starting point.

Try societyholytrinity.org.


This link will take you straight  to the STS Directory:

http://www.societyholytrinity.org/stswebdirectory.htm
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 10:24:56 PM by Rev. J. Thomas Shelley, STS »
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

George Erdner

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Re: NALC/STS Relationship
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2011, 10:23:31 PM »
A search for STS is not helpful in finding the Sts website. If you would like me to do the work involved in cross matching lists, I am willing, but I'd need a link as a starting point.

Try societyholytrinity.org.


OK, these are the churches in my database that match congregations listed on the STS website, which says "This list is up-to-date as of 25 November 2009."

Christ Evangelical Lutheran ChurchSt Petersburg, FL, Status = Pending, Denomination = LCMC
First Lutheran Church, Paxton, IL, Status = Pending, Denomination = Unknown
St Jacob's Lutheran Church, Glenville, PA, Status = Pending, Denomination = Unknown
New Heights Community Church, Normal, IL, Status = New start, Denomination = LCMC
Gift of Grace Lutheran Church, Onalaska, WI, Status = New start, Denomination = LCMC
Grace Lutheran Church (Formerly Our Savior LC), Colorado Springs, CO, Status = New ELCA, Denomination = ELCA
Shepherd of the Woods Church, Jacksonville, FL, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Springfield, GA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Old East Paint Creek Lutheran Church, Waterville, IA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Trinity Lutheran Church, Ellsworth, IA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Badger Lutheran Church, Badger, IA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC/LCMC
Immanuel Lutheran Church (Flatville), Thomasboro, IL, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
American Lutheran Church, Rantoul, IL, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
St James Lutheran Church, Holland, IN, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Christ Lutheran Church, Maple Plain, MN, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Troutman, NC, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Grace Lutheran Church, Newton, NC, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Center Grove Lutheran Church, Kannapolis, NC, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMS
Hope Lutheran Church, Smithfield, NE, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Immanuel Lutheran Church, Delhi, NY, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMS
St Paulís Evangelical Lutheran Church, Millersburg, PA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Abington, PA, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Peace Lutheran Church, Rockdale, TX, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Living Word Lutheran Church, Grapevine, TX, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = LCMC
Welcome Lutheran Church (Formerly Salem LC), Brenham, TX, Status = Left ELCA, Denomination = NALC
Emanuel Lutheran Church, Strawberry Point, IA, Status = Failed 2nd, Denomination = ELCA
First Lutheran Church, Northwood, IA, Status = Failed 1st, Denomination = ELCA
St Paul Lutheran Church, Sterling, IL, Status = Failed 1st, Denomination = ELCA
Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, Monroeville, PA, Status = Failed 1st, Denomination = ELCA