Author Topic: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?  (Read 138174 times)

peter_speckhard

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1995 on: February 07, 2011, 03:51:39 PM »
If you re-wrote Genesis such that God said, "It is not good for the woman to be alone; I will make a helper suitable to her..." and Eve said, "He shall be called man, for he was taken out of woman," and otherwise simply reversed everything concerning Adam and Eve in Scripture (OT and NT), would it make a theological and practical difference for the church today? My position is, yes it would. Some others in this forum seem to me to be arguing that would not (or should not) make any real difference.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1996 on: February 07, 2011, 04:04:16 PM »

As someone else mentioned, there is a definite article.

Are you arguing, then, that St. Paul is teaching here that a woman who bears no children cannot be saved? 

And if you are, do you actually teach and believe that argument yourself?  Or is this just another one of your "some say thus and so" diversions?
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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efretheim

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1997 on: February 07, 2011, 04:51:31 PM »
So to sum up the answer to the original question, "would disaffected ELCA'ers consider the LCMS?"

Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry.

Scott6

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1998 on: February 07, 2011, 04:59:44 PM »
So to sum up the answer to the original question, "would disaffected ELCA'ers consider the LCMS?"

Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry.

Erik, why post this?

[[And are you related to Terry?  I lived with him for a year when I studied at Luther.]]

kls

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1999 on: February 07, 2011, 05:00:52 PM »
So to sum up the answer to the original question, "would disaffected ELCA'ers consider the LCMS?"

Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry.

A better summation would be that some disaffected ELCA'ers--perhaps many--will find a home within the LCMS, as I did.  Debates on these finer points of theology aren't very prominent in the daily life of an LCMS church.  What is prominent is the love and acceptance of sinners of all types who desire to be fed from the Word of God.  No matter how much we rant and rave on here, we must not forget that none of us have it within our own power to see that someone makes it to an LCMS (or other) church.  That is the job of the Holy Spirit alone.  Denying that a person may land in the LCMS is essentially denying the power of the Holy Spirit.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2000 on: February 07, 2011, 05:23:37 PM »

As someone else mentioned, there is a definite article.

Are you arguing, then, that St. Paul is teaching here that a woman who bears no children cannot be saved? 

And if you are, do you actually teach and believe that argument yourself?  Or is this just another one of your "some say thus and so" diversions?

I'm saying, as I did when I first started this thread that often the "plain reading" of a text is not the interpretation that we use. If that's true about women being saved by child-bearing, perhaps we need to consider other possible ways of understanding the authority and silent issues beyond just a "plain reading".
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

efretheim

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2001 on: February 07, 2011, 05:24:58 PM »
So to sum up the answer to the original question, "would disaffected ELCA'ers consider the LCMS?"

Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry.

Erik, why post this?

[[And are you related to Terry?  I lived with him for a year when I studied at Luther.]]
Perhaps you may have noticed the thread drift, not uncommon, but perhaps the discussion could move closer to topic.  I check back every 5-10 pages to see if there is an actual on topic discussion (being a disaffected ELCA'er myself), just haven't found it yet.

Also, Terry is some sort of a distant cousin.

Erik

Scott6

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2002 on: February 07, 2011, 05:40:15 PM »
So to sum up the answer to the original question, "would disaffected ELCA'ers consider the LCMS?"

Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry.

Erik, why post this?

[[And are you related to Terry?  I lived with him for a year when I studied at Luther.]]
Perhaps you may have noticed the thread drift, not uncommon, but perhaps the discussion could move closer to topic.  I check back every 5-10 pages to see if there is an actual on topic discussion (being a disaffected ELCA'er myself), just haven't found it yet.

Also, Terry is some sort of a distant cousin.

Erik


I'm not quite sure how the following would be helpful in any discussion, whether it's thread drift of not: "Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry."

It's just run-of-the-mill, standard, unthinking hyperbole, unreflective of anything but the frustrated attitude of the one who makes it.

George Erdner

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2003 on: February 07, 2011, 09:36:49 PM »
I'm not quite sure how the following would be helpful in any discussion, whether it's thread drift of not: "Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry."

It's just run-of-the-mill, standard, unthinking hyperbole, unreflective of anything but the frustrated attitude of the one who makes it.

Sounds to me like reasonable exaggeration to make a point because, though an exaggeration, there is more than a little truth to it.

Weedon

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2004 on: February 07, 2011, 09:39:48 PM »
I'm not following what the point is.  At least from this Forum, the LCMS doesn't SEEM to have the market cornered on pointless arguments...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 09:41:56 PM by Weedon »

Karl Hess

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2005 on: February 07, 2011, 11:07:23 PM »
If you re-wrote Genesis such that God said, "It is not good for the woman to be alone; I will make a helper suitable to her..." and Eve said, "He shall be called man, for he was taken out of woman," and otherwise simply reversed everything concerning Adam and Eve in Scripture (OT and NT), would it make a theological and practical difference for the church today? My position is, yes it would. Some others in this forum seem to me to be arguing that would not (or should not) make any real difference.

Right on.  The irony in this is so razor sharp that I feel like I just got cut by it.

George Erdner

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2006 on: February 07, 2011, 11:12:19 PM »
I'm not following what the point is.  At least from this Forum, the LCMS doesn't SEEM to have the market cornered on pointless arguments...

It's not clear what your post is in response to.

kls

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2007 on: February 08, 2011, 07:19:26 AM »
OK, just for you thread drift police . . .  ;D

St. Paul Lutheran in Cincinnati (LCMS) will be receiving into membership this Sunday five individuals from the ELCA.  We've had a few more join just in the last year, too.  Some even before that.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 07:22:14 AM by Kim Schave »

pterandon

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2008 on: February 08, 2011, 08:10:56 AM »
Or "an LC-MS congregation might just split in TWO irreconcilable factions over something as trifling as whether the playing of a guitar, per se, might be tolerated during communion."

Oh wait, that actually happened to mine circa 1984.  (no pun intended in the year, it's actually my memory).


I'm not quite sure how the following would be helpful in any discussion, whether it's thread drift of not: "Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry."

It's just run-of-the-mill, standard, unthinking hyperbole, unreflective of anything but the frustrated attitude of the one who makes it.

Sounds to me like reasonable exaggeration to make a point because, though an exaggeration, there is more than a little truth to it.

Drive-by Lutheran

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Re: Would Disaffected ELCA'ers Consider LCMS? Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2009 on: February 08, 2011, 10:24:43 AM »
Or "an LC-MS congregation might just split in TWO irreconcilable factions over something as trifling as whether the playing of a guitar, per se, might be tolerated during communion."

Oh wait, that actually happened to mine circa 1984.  (no pun intended in the year, it's actually my memory).


I'm not quite sure how the following would be helpful in any discussion, whether it's thread drift of not: "Probably, but even if they did, nothing would ever come of it because the LCMS'ers would be too busy debating finer points of "how many inches of hair counts as a proper amount for a woman if she reads the bible aloud within 30 feet of the sanctuary" to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry."

It's just run-of-the-mill, standard, unthinking hyperbole, unreflective of anything but the frustrated attitude of the one who makes it.

Sounds to me like reasonable exaggeration to make a point because, though an exaggeration, there is more than a little truth to it.

"LCMS'ers would be too busy.....to notice that the former ELCA'er was actually making an inquiry."

Really, now.  What a silly statement.  As if a prospective member who has questions would be ignored.

Church politics are everywhere - even in the LCMS.  Whether or not to leave the ELCA for the LCMS depends on your comfort level.  I too, belonged to an LCMS congregation that split into two congregations because the new pastor pushed CoWo.  The Koinonia Project should bring an eventual end to the worship wars in the LCMS.  It is a work in progress:  http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=11841

Would you like to join an LCMS congregation that debates Adiaphora (for example: worship style), or would you prefer to remain in a denomination that celebrates homosexuality, abortion, goddess worship, Universal Salvation, Antinomianism, and use of the historical-critical method.  And for those ELCA'ers who instead decide to join NALC and LCMC, those groups are still wrestling with many of problematic issues in doctrine that plague the ELCA....... :'(