Author Topic: Dorothea Wendebourg on Luther and the Eucharist  (Read 4428 times)

John_Hannah

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Re: Dorothea Wendebourg on Luther and the Eucharist
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2011, 08:28:18 PM »
John, the debate over the Eucharistic Prayer may have had a few voices in Missouri (Boehme) but the primary and most articulate complaints came from Oliver K. Olsen and Gottfried Krodel of the other Lutheran bodies in ILCW.  This was not the primary nor pivotal issue in Missouri's rejection of LBW.  We had, after all, published several Eucharistic Prayers without much to do (in the Worship Supplement 1969, El Culto Cristian, and Peter Brunner's Worship in the Name of Jesus).

The SBH was ahead of us but it was still an unsettled issue in the LCA/ALC and I read somewhere (forgot where) that the majority of parishes using SBH used only the Verba alone and not the Prayer of Thanksgiving.

LARRY

Yes, you are accurate. Olson and Krodal led the way on this. They did not prevail as concerns the LBW.

Yet, Missouri objectors rode the LCA/ALC dissenting opinions for all they were worth. (Consider the spectacle of the objection to Good Friday "Reproaches." The "Reproaches" had absolutely no precedent in official Missouri books. However, there were objections from non Missourians. So, Missouri joined in just to add to objections. And since the ILCW ended up rejecting the "Reproaches" Missouri accepted them.

Many years back a wise sage of statecraft (kingdom of the left) said "An enemy of my enemy is my friend." It is the game we played with the LBW which we did not want simply because its acceptance would have contributed to the very likely probability of American Lutheran union and the end of Missouri triumphalism.


On the Eucharistic Prayer, we still do not have a complete one, except for the 1969 WS.   :)


...so Leonard Klein is right.

Peace, JOHN



Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

FrPeters

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Re: Dorothea Wendebourg on Luther and the Eucharist
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2011, 09:00:39 PM »
Quote
Does "bare verba" extend to elimination of preface, proper preface, and sanctus?
  While there are those that have indeed reduced the eucharistic liturgy to merely the Verba, this is historically an anomaly and still an aberration -- usually by those who want to shorten the liturgy (to extend the sermon) or to prove that none of this is essential (like it might be possible to live with only vitamins and some liquified protein but gadfry who would want to)... personally I am weary of those who insist upon minimums in church while not applying the same standard to their homes, cars, diets, jobs, etc... it is a foolish and errant piety to be so proudly humble.
Fr Larry Peters
Grace LCMS, Clarksville, TN
http://www.pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/

Michael Slusser

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Re: Dorothea Wendebourg on Luther and the Eucharist
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
The most trenchant passage in Klein's letter was, to me, ". . . the reason the prayer could exist without the verba was that the church understood to be to pray, not to recite the directions."

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian