So What If Boys Can't Be Boys And Men Can't Be Men?

[Brian Stoffregen]

Methinks that Jesus would have chastised any of his disciples who pulled out a firearm to defend him in the Garden of Gethsemane. He certainly did not play the "macho" image of a man as he allowed himself to be physically and verbally abused without fighting back or calling on the legion of angels to fight back.

[Charles_Austin]

Wow! Seemed to have touched a testosterone nerve here....

Pastor Copeck writes:
And FWIW, there is nothing wrong with poetry--if you can find 4 or 5 guys who want to get together and debate Shakesperean sonnets go for it.  But sorry Charlie, I can't imagine finding such a grouping outside of the academy (nothing wrong with that again).  
I muse:
But of course, those "academy" guys aren't true guys, right?

Pastor Copeck:
As a cyclist, (the kind that loves riding bicycles not motorcycles) I have been ridiculed and called "gay."  For some reason wearing tight shorts and hanging with some guys who shave their legs (I don't now and haven't in years) makes people say the dumbest of things.
I comment:
Life is tough.

Pastor Copeck:
Who cares?  If you want to read poetry or attend the opera go do it.  If someone says it isn't manly who cares as long as you enjoy it.  But don't try to tell me that the epitome of "manliness" is a barber shop quartet or attending La Bohemme.
Me:
I didn't try to tell you that. And BTW, it's La Bohème

Pastor Copeck:
I can tell you, that if I want to get guys together to hang out it won't be for theater, it will be for football or fishing and sometimes for going on a long ride for fitness and fellowship.
Me:
O.k. So?

Pastor Kruse writes:
Moral of the story for this thread, Charles, what you call death dealing is just normal for 20 year olds.
I muse:
Or for 50-year olds, which is how old I was when I skied the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix. But it wasn't
"normal," it was just something I wanted to do.

Pastor Kruse:
By belittling them for riding or denigrating the need for adventure and risk in a young mans life, you prove the article somewhat right.  
Me:
I do not belittle. I only say that dealing with death, booze, risky sports (and somehow we have left out hot women) is not - as much fun as those things are or were - the only description of masculinity.

Pastor Kruse:
Our old men have a problem being elders to us. Not the central point of the author but not unimportant. If you want to talk with young guys you might just need to be available to talk about extreme sports and not sneer. ANd to deal with blue collar men, calling their Harley's derogatory names is just plain anti evangelical.
Me:
I do not sneer. And right now my crotch-rocket description is only directed at the one beneath Pastor Hughes. Three or four guys I see regularly, one with a stunning set of tats, have machines that would probably out-hoss his by a good measure. I prayed with them as they headed out to Sturgis last summer. (Damn! Here I go trying to tote up macho points. Hate it when that happens.)

[Maryland Brian]

I was in my happy place before reading this thread.    Charles sure has a sense of humor!  I think a great man is one who can be manly and tough when needed but also full of compassion when necessary.  I think Jesus got it right on both counts; I have full confidence you all can, too.

See link.  Our cyclists raised the funds and had this bike built after they happened to see the "Team Hoyt" video I used in a sermon.  The dad is also one of our Lay Pastors, having a heart for fathers with special needs children.  The day the bike was delivered everyone was in tears as together on the custom bike  dad took his son for their first ever bike ride.

http://adventuresforthecure.com/campaigns/luke.html

Goggle Team Hoyt and Journey of Life Together to watch the video that inspired our men.

[Maryland Brian]

Me:
I do not sneer.

Yet, you seemed to have insulted so many ...

[ptmccain]

This is, actually, a very significant issue for the church, particularly across the liberal mainline where there has been embrace of "gender neutered" versions of everything: the ministry, the Scriptures, the Christian faith, etc. etc. The radical feminization and now homosexualization of the church has had extremely negative consequences for men.

I can't blame any man for not wanting to attend a church pastored by a gay man or a lesbian, not to mention a women. The frilly, fluffy, feminization of theology plays no better for any normal man than forcing him to shop in a fabric store or to take flower arranging classes.

"Pink/Rainbow" Power has taken over liberal church bodies and the men are simply tuning out.

No surprises here.

[kls]

Methinks that Jesus would have chastised any of his disciples who pulled out a firearm to defend him in the Garden of Gethsemane. He certainly did not play the "macho" image of a man as he allowed himself to be physically and verbally abused without fighting back or calling on the legion of angels to fight back.

The very things Jesus endured leading up to and during His time on the cross is something no man but He could ever withstand; that's true macho-man/God stuff in my book.

[Karl Hess]

Typically boys stop coming to church around puberty.  They don't want to do hand motions and make crafts in Sunday School anymore.  Liturgy can be attractive to men, because it isn't sentimental, but then Lutheran churches have often replaced liturgy with forms of contemporary worship that appeal to women more than men.

[GoCubsGo]

Wow! Seemed to have touched a testosterone nerve here....

Pastor Copeck:
Who cares?  If you want to read poetry or attend the opera go do it.  If someone says it isn't manly who cares as long as you enjoy it.  But don't try to tell me that the epitome of "manliness" is a barber shop quartet or attending La Bohemme.
Me:
I didn't try to tell you that. And BTW, it's La Bohème

My point, was and still is:  WHO CARES?  If reading poetry or going to La Boheeme (deliberately misspelled just for the fun of it) makes you feel manly go right ahead.  But know that those activities are generally seen as "manly."  Do what you like--that's my motto.  And no nerve touched here other than the one that gets ticked off when someone corrects spelling and grammar on an online message board.  I'll see you at Le Bohemme.  T'es vraiment trop con!

[George Erdner]

Is the constant pedantic correction of other peoples' errors, no matter how slight or beside the point they might be, a sign of manliness?

[ptmccain]

George, no, it is a symptom of what may be a permanent condition known as "fuss-budgetry." Not manly at all, just annoying, like listening to one's great aunts talk about her bunions.

[Pilgrim]

Dang, there went my bunion story in that sermon... You guys are ruining all the fun!!! 

[Dan Fienen]

One of the things that I find interesting about the show "MythBusters" is that while they do dangerous things on the show (and some of it is truly dnagerous, especially handling explosive materials and guns) they also use and show extensive safety precautions.  While there is often an element of danger in their investigations, they do those things as safely as possible and treat the safety precautions as a normal, expected element.  They are not about taking unnecessary risks and their masculinity does not suffer in the process.

Dan

[Maryland Brian]

Dang, there went my bunion story in that sermon... You guys are ruining all the fun!!! 

The interim before me for the  congregation in California offered up a sermon series on her journey through menopause.  I feel a need to preach about my prostate ...  What either would have to do with the Gospel would be a stretch, at least I think so.  Hmmm ... Too many hours on that motorized, well, you know ...

[ptmccain]

Dang, there went my bunion story in that sermon... You guys are ruining all the fun!!! 

Comment, for the win!

[ptmccain]

One of the things that I find interesting about the show "MythBusters" is that while they do dangerous things on the show (and some of it is truly dnagerous, especially handling explosive materials and guns) they also use and show extensive safety precautions.  While there is often an element of danger in their investigations, they do those things as safely as possible and treat the safety precautions as a normal, expected element.  They are not about taking unnecessary risks and their masculinity does not suffer in the process.

Dan

Mythbusters is my, and my boys', favorite show, right up there with Dirty Jobs.