So What If Boys Can't Be Boys And Men Can't Be Men?

[ptmccain]

A few months ago I was cruising on home from the office in my big safe Ford Five Hundred, the closest thing to a civilian tank on the road today, and two guys whipped past me, doing at least 80, and they both were...on their back wheels...doing wheelies.

The thought crossed through my mind: "I guess Darwin was right."

[Charles_Austin]

Those tall tall raised handlebars are also dangerous. My guys call them "ape-hangers".

[Dadoo]

A few months ago I was cruising on home from the office in my big safe Ford Five Hundred, the closest thing to a civilian tank on the road today, and two guys whipped past me, doing at least 80, and they both were...on their back wheels...doing wheelies.

The thought crossed through my mind: "I guess Darwin was right."

Hyabusas no doubt! There is a club of them somewhere in Dayton. Maybe surprisingly, maybe not, it is thoroughly racially integrated. Whenever I happen to come across them the group is half African American. They are really nice guys, BTW.

[Dadoo]

A few months ago I was cruising on home from the office in my big safe Ford Five Hundred, the closest thing to a civilian tank on the road today, and two guys whipped past me, doing at least 80, and they both were...on their back wheels...doing wheelies.

The thought crossed through my mind: "I guess Darwin was right."

WHOOOAAA!!!!!! Did Paul McCain just use the line "Darwin was right?? "         
       

[olarmy02]

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=13647

Some Anglican thoughts courtesy of Virtue Online (named after the owner David Virtue BTW).

[George Erdner]

But I will say this:  "motorized penis" made me LOL.  I've been known to use the phrase "penis-mobile" among girlfriends, and when driving near jerks on the highway.  However, "crotch rocket" I just can't handle.  It makes me want to vomit, just hearing or reading it on the page.  And frankly, the fact that it was used by some sort of "senior elite" of my "church body" (whatever-the-heck that even means) makes me a) nearly as embarrassed of our "church body" as Norwegian TV man did, and b) ensures that all respect and appreciation I had for this individual has flown out the window. 

For the record, that term is commonly used to describe a category of motorcycle. It has nothing to do with the location of male genitalia. It only refers to the seating position and extreme level of power in the motor. The term is most commonly used by those of us who prefer a more laid back "cruiser" style motorcycle as a negative term. A typical "cruiser" motorcycle is ridden in an upright or even slightly reclined backwards position. Raw acceleration and speed are not as important as comfort, since cruisers are meant to be ridden over long distances. A crotch rocket is a motorcycle that one rides in an uncomfortable forward leaning position. They are noted for a very high rate of acceleration and are so uncomfortable that only the hardiest of riders can manage to remain aboard one for more than an hour.

As I said, it is a negative term of derision towards the machine itself. It allude to the fact that though such motorcycles are as fast as rockets, they cause pain and discomfort in the part of the body where the rider makes contact with the machine.

[Richard Johnson]

Bari here. Tenor in church choirs, not in barbershop or male chorus settings.

Just sang both the bass and tenor soli in Bibel's "Ave Maria."

[Maryland Brian]

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=13647

Some Anglican thoughts courtesy of Virtue Online (named after the owner David Virtue BTW).

 Last week the owner of a local dive shop and former captain of the Baltimore Search and Rescue as well as technical expert on numerous Discovery Channel productions asked me to marry he and his girl friend.  OK, so Charles will think this is about me.  Fine Charles, it's all about me so you don't have to comment.  For the rest of us, I spent time with him and his intended a couple of years ago while wreck diving in Canada. I commented they seemed good together and, if they ever needed anyone to marry them, let me know.  At the time they laughed it off and said they'd never marry again.  Both are very unchurched.  Most of their friends are likewise.  Who knows what the Spirit may want to do amid our next steps together, but clearly I'll briefly have access to a different journey with the two of them as well as a group of very serious technical divers who may be open to exploring faith as well as deep wrecks.

 Dan Southerland, who led a very large church in Florida, once said something to the effect that every pastor must find a male oriented hobby in the community so he (hang with me a second on the pronoun) can have access to unchurched men.  I say "he" because the ladies among us might not have the same access as a guy.  For the women pastors among us, I'd like to hear ideas around that one, maybe a cadre of men who can be your ambassadors to these events.

[jrubyaz]

As the pastor of one of the largest Lutheran men's ministry in the nation, I have read this thread with bemusement. The stats are startling, on an average Sunday in America 74% of those in the pews are women.

Nothing against the ladies, at least they are picking up the spiritual torch, but our neutered Protestant churches offer little for men.

When they DO come, we grab them and ask them to hand out bulletins, be an usher, or be on the property committee. Hardly spiritual growth.

Some may sneer at Pastor Hughes and others who are trying new things to reach men, but at least they are in the arena getting dusty and bloody, not a spectator on the sidelines.

Jeff Ruby   

[mariemeyer]

What is more, those who will suffer most from this movement are precisely those whom our society, stupidly considering them little more than pests or dolts, has ignored. I mean boys...A boy who does not agree to a girl's demand for sex will be tagged with homosexuality. She will slander him herself....On three great bonds of love do all cultures depend: the love between man and woman in marriage; the love between a mother and her child; and the camaraderie among men, a bond that used to be strong enough to move mountains. The first two have suffered greatly; the third has almost ceased to exist.

The above are among statements made in this article that are questionable. We have five teenaged grandsons. Either they are exceptions or this writer has taken a legitimate concern, the fact that boys drop out of high school at a higher rate then girls and that women now outnumber men on college campuses, to erect a straw man.  I am greatly concerned about young men, particularly young black men, who are not reaching their full potential.  IMO generalizations in this article do not address the full nature of the problem or the many causes.  

I am also concerned that my husband does not have the friendships among his peers that he had when he first entered the ministry. Circuit social gathering have almost ceased to exist. There was a time we'd get together, the guys in one room and the wives in another. Some of the men might go off and play tennis or chess. Such bonding among fellow pastors seems to have gone the way of black and white TV.

Marie  

[jpetty]

A few months ago I was cruising on home from the office in my big safe Ford Five Hundred, the closest thing to a civilian tank on the road today, and two guys whipped past me, doing at least 80, and they both were...on their back wheels...doing wheelies.

The thought crossed through my mind: "I guess Darwin was right."

WHOOOAAA!!!!!! Did Paul McCain just use the line "Darwin was right?? "         
       

Good one.

[George Erdner]

There was a comment way back in this thread that implied that preparing congregational dinners was "women's work". At the church I'm a member of, it is the men to dominate the kitchen for congregational dinners, both indoor and outdoor. The food is generally excellent, even if we don't always get the full amount of points for presentation. Granted, we're more likely to have smoked wild boar than watercress sandwiches with the crusts cut off.

[amos]

For about 12 years now I have taught a class in communication skills. What I find interesting is that the definition of communication --"is the transfer of meaning."   Words do have different meanings geographically, culturally, and generational.  For example the crotch rocket  term has noting to do with the anatomy but everything to do with the type of machine.   Law enforcement officers use terms that have meaning but would not be understood by most of society and easily taken out of context.  So do nurses, EMTS, doctors, pilots, scuba divers and even pastors.  Examples, crispy critter, going down, flash, etc.. Then add  in trade language, and you have a perfect example of words being said but no real communication taking place.   It is to easy to assume what one persons says means exactly what we think they meant -- from our perspective.  Words like fundamentalist, conservative, liberal, orthodox, etc all have various meanings depending on the cultural, social, educational, and accepted local meanings of the words being used.

It is so easy to be offended when we "assume" we know what a person meant by using "our" definition of the words used.  Some on this forum are very good at using words to slam and deliberately imply a different meaning to what others are saying.  The point I am making is that there is enough room for miss-communication without deliberately attempting to change the context of what someone says just to make our selves look better (in our own eyes) or justify our cherished opinions by implying others are stupid, bigoted, or dumb.

One such comment implied those who might ride motorcycles, or hunt, are somehow just macho apes, while those who read poetry and sing are cultured and somehow better.  I for example am former military, former law enforcement, married for almost 50 years, love to shoot, have studied the martial arts for years, enjoy the theater, sing in a choir, madrigals, play hand bells, play an musical instrument, actually enjoy reading, one of my degrees was a masters in psychology --- before going to seminary and I for one know it all means nothing.  What we do for, and with the help of Christ, is what counts.   Just one opinion from an old man.

[Brian Stoffregen]

However, "crotch rocket" I just can't handle.  

"Crotch rocket" is a common term for a high-speed sport bike, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotch_rocket or Google it. It is frequently used by the folks who ride such motorcycles.

[iowakatie1981]

Duh.  I know exactly what it means, and by whom the term is primarily used.  Doesn't make it any less disgusting. 

For the record, I'm not opposed to "biker ministry" or whatever, I'm friends with some of the state and national leaders of the Christian Motorcyle Association (I think that's what it's called).  I'm generally a fan of whatever reaches the lost and ministers appropriately to those in need (of salvation, fellowship, education, edification, whatever someone's need might be).  I just think that not all language that a particular subculture uses should necessarily be adopted by those ministering to a given subculture.

Honestly, when I was a student athletic trainer in high school, I had the football team trained to keep it in the locker room.  You'd think ordained ministers of the Gospel could do the same.