Author Topic: Some changes afoot  (Read 18828 times)

Dan Fienen

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2010, 12:09:02 PM »
I like the idea of archiving deleted threads somewhere and making it available in some reasonable fashion.  I do kind of wonder why we have not only the last convention but the conventions previous to that of both church on line.  Would help a little.

Dan
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SmithL

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2010, 12:11:07 PM »
Paula Murray
Who, if she keeps to her current rate of posting, will hit the 600 mark in 15 or 16 YEARS.


But the more posts you make, the more stars you are awarded.  Nobody gets a star for showing restraint.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2010, 12:38:04 PM »
Pastor Fienen writes:
You still seem to resent that we do not agree that your version of Lutheranism is every bit as valid, authentic, even orthodox as that in the LCMS.
I comment:
Yes, I do. No apologies for that. You see only one form, one type, one anything that is "Lutheranism." I don't. The Church of Sweden - Lutheran. The church bodies in Indonesia (that look nothing like the Church of Sweden) - Lutheran.  Our communion takes different forms around the world, depending upon its history, development and local leadership or lack thereof. You do not recognize that the way that I do.

Pastor Fienen writes:
You keep saying that you consider the LCMS to be a valid Lutheran denomination where the Gospel is rightly preached and the sacraments rightly administered as though that meant that you are now free to take pot shots at the LCMS, make snarky comments about disunity within the LCMS and complain that we do not respond by saying that ELCA version of Lutheranism is just correct as what we in the LCMS believe, teach and confess.
I comment:
I do not take "pot shots," though I at times express my disagreement with LCMS policies and sometimes I ask questions. It is not "snarky" to recognize that the LCMS is not as "doctrinally unified" as you claim to be.  As for how you respond, see above. There is more than one form of Lutheranism. You do not seem to admit that.

Pastor Fienen:
(Although its not exactly clear what the ELCA teaches about some topics since, for example, you affirmed in your latest legislation, CWA '09, that the ELCA has four correct teachings on a certain topic, some of which directly oppose others.)
Me:
We are more comfortable with disagreements and ambiguity that you are. And it is quite clear, perfectly clear, totally clear that the ELCA teaches salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2010, 01:46:59 PM »
Pastor Fienen, you will have to excuse me and perhaps I am having a bad week, and most likely we are not communicating properly; but I fear that I see in your recent post the kind of patronizing stereotypes and unctuous language that just makes my teeth itch.


Pot?  Meet Kettle.   ::)
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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Paula Murray

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2010, 02:00:22 PM »
Paula Murray
Who, if she keeps to her current rate of posting, will hit the 600 mark in 15 or 16 YEARS.


But the more posts you make, the more stars you are awarded.  Nobody gets a star for showing restraint.

Yeah, true, but if we all had lots and lots of stars who would look special?  It's like what we told our youngest back in the days when he was the shortest person in his class, "No dear, you can't have human growth hormone.  It's not good for you overall and besides, if we didn't have short people we wouldn't know who the tall people are."


Said son is now just shy of six feet. 

And, somewhere, I should act counter to my usual behavior.  So, here, I'll read YOUR comments and keep mine to myself....most of the time.

Yours in the Christ,
Paula Murray

ptmccain

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2010, 02:04:02 PM »
Seems that those changes promised can't come too quickly.

 :'(

Dan Fienen

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2010, 02:15:20 PM »
Pastor Fienen writes:
You still seem to resent that we do not agree that your version of Lutheranism is every bit as valid, authentic, even orthodox as that in the LCMS.
I comment:
Yes, I do. No apologies for that. You see only one form, one type, one anything that is "Lutheranism." I don't. The Church of Sweden - Lutheran. The church bodies in Indonesia (that look nothing like the Church of Sweden) - Lutheran.  Our communion takes different forms around the world, depending upon its history, development and local leadership or lack thereof. You do not recognize that the way that I do.

Pastor Fienen writes:
You keep saying that you consider the LCMS to be a valid Lutheran denomination where the Gospel is rightly preached and the sacraments rightly administered as though that meant that you are now free to take pot shots at the LCMS, make snarky comments about disunity within the LCMS and complain that we do not respond by saying that ELCA version of Lutheranism is just correct as what we in the LCMS believe, teach and confess.
I comment:
I do not take "pot shots," though I at times express my disagreement with LCMS policies and sometimes I ask questions. It is not "snarky" to recognize that the LCMS is not as "doctrinally unified" as you claim to be.  As for how you respond, see above. There is more than one form of Lutheranism. You do not seem to admit that.

Pastor Fienen:
(Although its not exactly clear what the ELCA teaches about some topics since, for example, you affirmed in your latest legislation, CWA '09, that the ELCA has four correct teachings on a certain topic, some of which directly oppose others.)
Me:
We are more comfortable with disagreements and ambiguity that you are. And it is quite clear, perfectly clear, totally clear that the ELCA teaches salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Whatever.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

LCMS87

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2010, 02:52:48 PM »
I do not take "pot shots," though I at times express my disagreement with LCMS policies and sometimes I ask questions. It is not "snarky" to recognize that the LCMS is not as "doctrinally unified" as you claim to be. 

Restricting the sacrament to "sponsorship" of a congregation alone seems to be one of the most draconian steps ever taken by those who wish to exert ultra-conservative control over what belongs to the Church as "C"hurch.
    But of course, what can you expect from a denomination that has made a long long career or ripping people up over such things, bringing its leading theologians (the "44", Concordia-St. Louis Professors) to the guillotine, and letting each individual pastor decide for himself who he deigns to be worthy to kneel beside him at the altar rail.
    Such actions are a profound embarrassment to all decent Lutheran.....
    Oh! Wait! Stop! I let my guard down and a spirit of ptmccain took over my keyboard. I think I have now killed that intrusive spirit deader than Dobbie the House Elf at the close of the most recent Harry Potter movie.
    My apologies to all.  ;) Not.

Utterly inappropriate, Charles. A genuine apology for what one complainer called "jackassery" would be in order.

Richard writes (re my mockery of a certain "style"):
Utterly inappropriate, Charles. A genuine apology for what one complainer called "jackassery" would be in order.

I respond:
I agree. Completely. (With regard to a certain style of posting, that is.)

And if the consensus, or however you reach decision, is - no women lectors, no women acolytes, no women crucifers - good luck on getting the congregations that permit such to stop doing it. I'll be watching to see how that happens.

Gratuitous, snarky, and unnecessary. Charles, please keep comments like this to yourself.


I do not take "pot shots," . . .  It is not "snarky"

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!  (Robert Burns)

kls

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2010, 03:01:36 PM »
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!  (Robert Burns)

Wow, LCMS87 can cite poetry as well as he can sing!  :D  Your post is music to my ears.  Someone who is trying so hard to play the innocent victim upthread to the mean old LCMS posters gets called out.  I'm trying my best to hit my mental "ignore" button where some are concerned, so your comments match my thoughts exactly.  The mean-spirited nature of the posts of some drown out any attempt at dialogue and mutual understanding (even if the understanding means we agree to disagree).

Revbert

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2010, 03:05:54 PM »
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!  (Robert Burns)

Wow, LCMS87 can cite poetry as well as he can sing!  :D  Your post is music to my ears.  Someone who is trying so hard to play the innocent victim upthread to the mean old LCMS posters gets called out.  I'm trying my best to hit my mental "ignore" button where some are concerned, so your comments match my thoughts exactly.  The mean-spirited nature of the posts of some drown out any attempt at dialogue and mutual understanding (even if the understanding means we agree to disagree).

As I am fond of saying,

"Do not have a battle of wits with an unarmed inDUHvidual."  (apologies to Dogbert <G>)

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2010, 03:09:17 PM »
Well, I've now saved all my posts currently attached to my profile.  Yes, there are lots of times where they aren't very clear as they lack context, but what are you going to do!  I did discover several posts are still on the board that have never showed up via the "search" function.  And every once in a while I find a post I wrote that impresses me!  

Then there are all those typos...

Pax, Steven+
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Jay

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2010, 03:13:07 PM »
As a voting member of the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly, I found Pastor Johnson's daily reports to be valuable and accurate summaries of the proceedings.  So, if older threads are deleted, I ask that those threads be archived somehow for their historical value.

kls

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2010, 03:30:50 PM »
But I'd hate to see occasional misbehavior -- and I think most, if not all, of us are occasionally guilty of that -- used as a reason for cutting back those threads that are retained to only 60 days.

I believe in continuing to impose the "lesser ban"  ;D (and administering it equitably) to prune through a lot of ridiculous and petty arguments, my own included.  Occasional misbehavior I can tolerate, ongoing misbehavior is another thing.  I would expect my own to be pointed out and acted upon, as well.  I believe some voices could be heard again that have been effectively silenced as a result of it.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2010, 03:33:52 PM »
I continue to accept every person on this board as a fellow Lutheran and a beloved child of God.
I accept every other pastor on this board as a person apparently trying their best to minister in they way they feel called to do so.
I am allowed to disagree with them, to argue with them, even to say that I think some of their views are silly without abandoning that basic premise.
I give others the respect of taking their posts seriously and not saying "don't listen to that idiot," or "just ignore him."
Yet it seems that doing so makes others feel they can call me witless, a bad pastor, and worse.

Now, as to the topic. Clear out the convention/assembly stuff that is more than one year old. Clear out topics where no one posts for more than a week. Encourage people not to quote (either in my sensible way or in that da**ed blue box) huge chunks of nested comments.


kls

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Re: Some changes afoot
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2010, 04:03:02 PM »
It's amazing how far an apology can go when called out for bad behavior.  I noticed Pastor Yakimow making fine use of this concept just yesterday.  I'm using the purple box, as I find it most helpful in setting apart quotes, and when used properly, attributing the quote easily to the author.

Quote
I recently wrote a post that ended with a couple very arrogant sentences.  I have deleted them and apologize for having written them.

What respect I have for that type of response rather than seeing someone simply make more excuses for their behavior by placing the blame elsewhere.  I suppose you can call my attitude on this silly or just chalk it up to me being in constant mother mode as I try to raise four PK's to be polite, positive contributors to society who are accountable for doing more than paying lip service to their Christian faith--I'm attempting to teach them to bear the fruit of that faith in their relationships with others.  If that makes me a mean, finger-pointing person of the LCMS on this forum by stating so, I guess I'll take the blame for that.  Whew . . . way off thread topic and guilty of my own space-wasting.  Back to trying to hit the mental "ignore" button to save space.