Some changes afoot

[hillwilliam]

I did a quick count, as I am ofttimes wont to do. My numbers might be off by three or four, but not much more than that.
I think I counted 68 people on this forum with more than 500 posts. I did not include the moderators.
Of those 68, five are consistently supportive of the ELCA, at least to some extent. But one of those has virtually dropped out of the discussion, disgusted with the tenor of the conversation (this person told me). Another seems to be slipping away from the discussion and one has relatively few recent postings.
Four others are apparently in the ELCA, but strongly - one might say terminally - critical of that church body.
The rest are not in the ELCA, either in the LCMS (most of them) or have left or are leaving the ELCA (and in at least one case the LCMS) because of doctrinal disputes. Virtually all of those 60+ believe the ELCA is heterodox, apostate, heretical or worse and say so frequently.
That is the "balance" in this forum.
Just an observation.

Given that 99% of the Christian world and 2000 years of Christian history disagree with the decisions of the CWA I would say that the ELCA's current position is over represented on this board.

This is a Lutheran discussion board in the United States. Considering that the ELCA is nearly twice as large as the LCMS, we should have nearly twice as many posters as the other U.S. Lutheran denominations.

I'm going to make a contribution to the space thing...  I'm getting off this board...again... 

Life is too damn short.

Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

I hope you change your mind but certainly understand your frustrations. Just remember that the Church has successfully defended the faith against Gnosticism from the very beginning.

[Matt]

I appreciate this Forum very much as it is, and I'm grateful for the work of the moderators and others who make this possible.

I believe moderation should continue to be used with a light hand. When a person engages in jackassery, he only hurts his own reputation. Participation in this forum is voluntary and I don't think anyone should be trying to patrol the numbers or types of contributors. The only time posts should be deleted is for gratuitous personal nastiness (the definition of which is necessarily subjective), revealing confidential information, and spam. Otherwise, let the feathers fly!

[hillwilliam]

I did a quick count, as I am ofttimes wont to do. My numbers might be off by three or four, but not much more than that.
I think I counted 68 people on this forum with more than 500 posts. I did not include the moderators.
Of those 68, five are consistently supportive of the ELCA, at least to some extent. But one of those has virtually dropped out of the discussion, disgusted with the tenor of the conversation (this person told me). Another seems to be slipping away from the discussion and one has relatively few recent postings.
Four others are apparently in the ELCA, but strongly - one might say terminally - critical of that church body.
The rest are not in the ELCA, either in the LCMS (most of them) or have left or are leaving the ELCA (and in at least one case the LCMS) because of doctrinal disputes. Virtually all of those 60+ believe the ELCA is heterodox, apostate, heretical or worse and say so frequently.
That is the "balance" in this forum.
Just an observation.

Given that 99% of the Christian world and 2000 years of Christian history disagree with the decisions of the CWA I would say that the ELCA's current position is over represented on this board.

This is a Lutheran discussion board in the United States. Considering that the ELCA is nearly twice as large as the LCMS, we should have nearly twice as many posters as the other U.S. Lutheran denominations.

How are you generating this statistic?

membership?
Attendance?

or confession?

Membership. As Charles has pointed out, a majority of the ELCAers with over 500 posts do not agree with the recent ELCA actions. We are not a church body that tries to create unity by confessional agreement. We have diversity within the limits imposed by our constitutional Confession of Faith.

So if we do not create unity by confessional agreement, how do we create it? Oh that's right we don't, we created controversy and division. As can be seen in the splitting of congregations and synods, the exodus of members and congregations, and the decline in mission support.

Why do we claim acceptance of the historic creeds, the authority of scripture, and the Augsburg Confession if we don't want to have unity with the confessing Church? Or have those marks of our Lutheran Christian faith been voted out at the last CWA also.

[kls]

This is a Lutheran discussion board in the United States. Considering that the ELCA is nearly twice as large as the LCMS, we should have nearly twice as many posters as the other U.S. Lutheran denominations.

So invite your friends to the discussion.  Someone thought enough of something I said elsewhere to invite me to check out this forum; they might regret doing so, but at least I'm learning some things.  

[Jim Lehmann]

Wouldn't it be cool to take a complete vacation for a month or so?  

PB

A month's vacation sounds great.  Actually, taking a month's vacation from the forum has been tried.  I discover that, like a TV soap opera, when I came back, nothing had changed.  Same topics, same arguments, same commentators.  

Maybe a way to change the forum would be that once a person has reached a number of comments on a given thread (maybe 30), they would no longer be able to comment.  We may still have the same topics and the same arguments, but at least the commentators would be different.

Jim Lehmann


Jim

[kls]

As for "tone," well, that often depends upon the ear of the hearer and is out of my control.

No, sir, the tone is set by the writer.  If it is outside the control of the writer, perhaps it's time for the writer to take a good hard look at his or her habits.  I can see my own tone taking a decline based on how the conversation gets derailed on here, so I think I'll take Pastor Kliner's same path and focus on more positive ventures for a time.  "Life is just too damn short" (Amen! Pastor Kliner) to go down these negative paths all the time.  My faith brings me so much joy, and when that no longer becomes evident, it's time to think through the kind of witness we're providing.  Thanks to you all who are admitting this very thing and are taking actions to improve your habits . . . you've inspired me.   

[hillwilliam]

Let me restate my suggestion. If the threads could be deleted, that have not been active in the last 90 days, and put on a DVD, the archive could be made available as a service to subscribers (for the cost of postage and handling) or as a separate subscription on a quarterly basis. Of course, I am assuming that the comments made in the threads are in the public domain.

[Maryland Brian]

My faith brings me so much joy, and when that no longer becomes evident, it's time to think through the kind of witness we're providing.  Thanks to you all who are admitting this very thing and are taking actions to improve your habits . . . you've inspired me.   

  That's what Facebook is for!  Seriously.  It's how I stay in touch with positive people who are making a difference.  Can I friend you?

[kls]

My faith brings me so much joy, and when that no longer becomes evident, it's time to think through the kind of witness we're providing.  Thanks to you all who are admitting this very thing and are taking actions to improve your habits . . . you've inspired me.   

  That's what Facebook is for!  Seriously.  It's how I stay in touch with positive people who are making a difference.  Can I friend you?

Absolutely!     Kim Carr Schave

Despite the negativity, I am learning a lot from others and am very thankful for the diversity we all have here.  It would be helpful if we could do a better job as Christians to accept this diversity, myself included.  When the comments get personal on a continuous basis, it just becomes too much.  Sounds like the moderators are working on that.  I certainly appreciate being called out as I have been when I've crossed the line.

[Brian Stoffregen]

As for "tone," well, that often depends upon the ear of the hearer and is out of my control.

No, sir, the tone is set by the writer.  If it is outside the control of the writer, perhaps it's time for the writer to take a good hard look at his or her habits.

There is some of both: a tone by the writer's words and the tone assumed by those who read them. I find that it makes a lot of difference in reading posts from folks I know personally -- those with whom I've conversed face to face where all the non-verbal stuff comes into play. Such a relationship makes it more likely that I will "hear" their posts more accurately than from others whom I don't know.

[Dan Fienen]

This is a Lutheran discussion board in the United States. Considering that the ELCA is nearly twice as large as the LCMS, we should have nearly twice as many posters as the other U.S. Lutheran denominations.

Perhaps we should establish a quota system.  After all, look how much that has helped some church bodies.  Take the number of good ELCA posters, Pr. Austin could help determine who the good ELCA posters are and from that allocate half as many slots for ungood ELCA posters and non-ELCA posters, again, perhaps Pr. Austin could help in the winnowing process since he is so good at detecting those whose posting is unacceptable, or conduct a lottery for those slots (giving preference to Lutheran Forum subscribers) and kick the rest off.  That would lessen the overload in storage, lower Pr. Austins blood pressure and ensure a more respectful Forum experience.

Or Charles and Brian could go out a recruit more ELCA posters. 

Dan

[iowakatie1981]

What if we started from scratch and everybody had to be anonymous?  It would force us to read what people are actually saying and evaluate arguments on their merits, rather than our personal opinions about the individual posters.

Or, we could have an awesome party game - the moderators could pull all the names of registered users on the board, shuffle them, and reassign them to us all via email.  For 30 days, each of us has to post in the spirit and personality of the name we've been assigned.  Free subscriptions to Lutheran Forum for the first person to uncover another's "true identity."  It would be sort of like Blindman's Bluff - hey, they play that in A Christmas Carol.  It's seasonal and everything! 

(I hope I don't get Brian or Scott - I haven't figured out how to type in Greek here.  )

[Richard Johnson]

This is a Lutheran discussion board in the United States. Considering that the ELCA is nearly twice as large as the LCMS, we should have nearly twice as many posters as the other U.S. Lutheran denominations.

Nonsense.

[gausmann]

I would suggest limiting the number of posts a person can make in a week to 21-three a day, this not only encourages people to actually stay on topic it also helps to ensure the mental health of readers and contributors alike. Archive somewhere off this site things over a year old and keep the number of topics to no more than fifty at a time unless all have over a hundred hits in a month. If people rant and rave nedlessly and endlessly call the producers of Mission Impossible and see how to get their computers to self-destruct.

[Mike Bennett]

What if we started from scratch and everybody had to be anonymous?  It would force us to read what people are actually saying and evaluate arguments on their merits, rather than our personal opinions about the individual posters.

Iowakatie gets it.

Mike Bennett