Some changes afoot

[A Catholic Lutheran]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

Sigh...  

As I said elsewhere:

We get it already.  "You" are so much better than the rest of humanity.  Thank God that he didn't make you like us...

I'm not cheering that anyone feels the need to absent themselves from this forum.  I have repeatedly admitted, confessed, apologized for the hurtful and ill-concieved things I have said on these pages.  I have left before because I see the deliterious effect arguing has on my own psyche, I have come back because I miss the fellowship of other knowledgable Christians and what they can offer me.  I am with Scott...  I am a whisker's breadth from cashing it in...again...on this forum because frankly I don't like being miserable...which reading this stuff makes me.

And yes, I could ignore the postings of...certain...people and I try darn hard to.  All too often I fail and rise to the bait.  But that's MY problem.

How typical...  Here I am, once again, wasting my breath when I should just say these simple words: Confess your own darn sins, Charles.  I own my own problems, they are not yours.  Confess your own darn sins, not the sins of others.

Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

[grabau14]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

8th Commandment, Pr. Austin.

[Scott6]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

Sorry that this was your response.

[Charles_Austin]

I am not accusing others of being sinful, Pastor Kliner; I am saying that their participation here reeks of negativity and hostility.

[Michael Slusser]

I've been trying to figure out what goes wrong (when it goes wrong) on this Forum which I have come to value. Oddly, since this is a Lutheran forum, the leading disrupter of conversation seems to me to be
     self-justification,
     accompanied by its fraternal twin, (self-justification by) showing the other poster's faults,
     and abetted by a step-brother, challenging others to justify themselves.
That having been said, I find that one can without too much difficulty avoid making the situation worse if one avoids the urge to leap into thread disruptions of that nature.

Peace,
Michael

[George Erdner]

The reason that I have not posted in here has nothing to do with my not having an opinion on this topic.

[Tom Senge]

Dear brothers and sisters, there is a simple solution to all of this.  When I did more youth work I would set up scenarios, and they almost always degenerated to hostile positions.  In fact, when I stepped in to take part in the scenario, the youth did not know how to handle the situation!

Somehow we became creatures who like conflict.  I don't know why, but here is my solution.  When you read a post (no matter who it's from), do 3 things:
1) Realize that no one is trying to take away your birthday....it's an opinion for cryin' out loud.
2) If you must, type a response and vent.....then
3) Read your response a couple of times, and truly ask if your response is appropriate, or just adds fuel to the fire.

There, problem solved.

There are lots of times when I have typed responses and deleted them.  Why, because they would not positively add to the discussion.  Oh, sometimes a little snark might seep through, but not often, and not very venomous, but I try.

Also, one final thing, lest any of us feel so puffed up, realize that we are just small players in a much bigger scheme, and that we are all God's children and bound servants to His word.

Now, let us all offer the sign of our Lord's peace.....Peace be with you!

Tom

[George Erdner]

I suspect Fran wouldn't let either Charles or George get away with the nonsense they pull here!

Too true, Erma. I would just add one difference between them. Charles may push a lot of buttons in his arguments, but George is the one who continually resorts to the worst sort of name calling. It is really pathetic.

This post as troubled me ever since I read it. I would appreciate being enlightened about just when I used an epithet to address another member of this forum. If you will point out specific instances when I used an epithet to address someone (which is, after all, what "name calling" means), that will educate me as to something I wasn't aware that I was doing. When I am shown quotes from my posts in which I addressed anyone by an epithet, I promise that I will apologize, and I will stop addressing people with epithets. I am genuinely not aware of having ever addressed anyone in here by an epithet, but I'll admit to having done so if you will simply provide some quotes of the times I "continually" resorted to the worst sort of name calling, so that I can understand what you are referring to.

[Richard Johnson]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

And you're not succeeding. Didn't your mother ever tell you that when you point fingers at someone, there are four pointing back at you? I'm pretty close to fed up with this childish behavior on the part of a handful here.

[Darrell Wacker]

Nicely said, Pr. Johnson.

[revklak]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

And you're not succeeding. Didn't your mother ever tell you that when you point fingers at someone, there are four pointing back at you? I'm pretty close to fed up with this childish behavior on the part of a handful here.

Except for the fact that actually only 3 fingers point back at you, becuase the thumb, even if you want to call it a finger, holds the other 3 down and points forward in the process of doing so.

That's why I point with my whole hand - all finger-point!   

[Richard Johnson]

I'm attempting to back off, Scott, I am attempting. But get a little perspective.
You want negative?
Read Mr. Erdner. Read Pastor Uttenreither. Read Pastor Buechler. Read Coach/Rev. Read Pastor Kliner. Read Lutherman. Read Pastor Bohler. Read Pastor Copeck. Read the others who wallow in the "misery," either their own or that of the church.
Pastor Fienen and Mr. Gehlhausen aren't totally negative, but they ain't a bucket of sunshine, either, and I generally come away feeling the slap on my face.
Pastor Awtry smiles and smiles and smiles (as in Hamlet Act I, scene v) but I still see what the young Dane saw.
And such is the response to my "helpful corrections."
You think only folks who disagree with me have left this forum? Think again.
Attempting. I am attempting.

And you're not succeeding. Didn't your mother ever tell you that when you point fingers at someone, there are four pointing back at you? I'm pretty close to fed up with this childish behavior on the part of a handful here.

Except for the fact that actually only 3 fingers point back at you, becuase the thumb, even if you want to call it a finger, holds the other 3 down and points forward in the process of doing so.

That's why I point with my whole hand - all finger-point!   

No, see, my mother was talking about hitch-hiking. 

[George Erdner]

No, see, my mother was talking about hitch-hiking. 

You know, that's the devil's mode of transportation, or so I was told.

[mariemeyer]

I've been trying to figure out what goes wrong (when it goes wrong) on this Forum which I have come to value. Oddly, since this is a Lutheran forum, the leading disrupter of conversation seems to me to be self-justification, accompanied by its fraternal twin, (self-justification by) showing the other poster's faults, and abetted by a step-brother, challenging others to justify themselves.
That having been said, I find that one can without too much difficulty avoid making the situation worse if one avoids the urge to leap into thread disruptions of that nature.

Peace,
Michael

IMO the above is worth pondering. Brother Michael speaks with discernng wisdom to his Lutherean brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether it is named self-justification, self-deception or self-defense, his words are a reminder that we are by nature persons blind to the degree we will go to be in the right.

Marie

[George Erdner]

I've been trying to figure out what goes wrong (when it goes wrong) on this Forum which I have come to value. Oddly, since this is a Lutheran forum, the leading disrupter of conversation seems to me to be self-justification, accompanied by its fraternal twin, (self-justification by) showing the other poster's faults, and abetted by a step-brother, challenging others to justify themselves.
That having been said, I find that one can without too much difficulty avoid making the situation worse if one avoids the urge to leap into thread disruptions of that nature.

Peace,
Michael

IMO the above is worth pondering. Brother Michael speaks with discernng wisdom to his Lutherean brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether it is named self-justification, self-deception or self-defense, his words are a reminder that we are by nature persons blind to the degree we will go to be in the right.

Marie

It's actually very easy to resist the temptation to engage in excess zeal in presenting your own opinion or take on a subject. Just stop caring. Stop telling yourself that any of this matters. Stop believing that there is such a thing as right and wrong, or correct and incorrect. Just embrace the idea that there are no absolutes, every opinion is just as good and valid as every other, and that nothing at all really matters.

It's not really so much a question of being convinced that one is right about anything, it's a matter of believing that there is such a thing as "right". Once one rejects the idea of the existence of "right", then one will never be tempted to want to persuade others that one is right.