Author Topic: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage  (Read 3824 times)

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2010, 11:48:19 PM »

And they believed this even though it is contrary to something Lutherans have always taught and there is overwhelming sociological evidence is that their belief is untrue. Which might raise the question of just what kind of education they received at that Lutheran University.

I quoted earlier a study that indicated that women who cohabitate only with their future husband are less likely to divorce than women who did not cohabitate. I wouldn't be surprised if such studies were read in Lutheran Universities.

Actually, Brian, you didn't "quote a study," you quoted a USA Today article about a study.  One study, I see, that notes its conclusions do not fit most other studies.  And one with no report of the spiritual state of the respondents.  Of course, that fits with your ignoring the part about this being "contrary to something Lutherans have always taught" (Pastor Petty notwithstanding).  I guess maybe it's "okay" if you somehow pick the right guy to move in with first time, eh?   ::)

« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 11:51:32 PM by Pastor Zip »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2010, 12:41:08 AM »
Actually, Brian, you didn't "quote a study," you quoted a USA Today article about a study.  One study, I see, that notes its conclusions do not fit most other studies.  And one with no report of the spiritual state of the respondents.  Of course, that fits with your ignoring the part about this being "contrary to something Lutherans have always taught" (Pastor Petty notwithstanding).  I guess maybe it's "okay" if you somehow pick the right guy to move in with first time, eh?   ::)

Well, that sounds a lot like a man leaving his father and mother and joining with his woman, and the two become one flesh.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles_Austin

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2010, 06:14:33 AM »
No one is "downplaying" you, Pastor Kliner. I only note that "experience" does not always mean that something has to happen to one personally. I would bet that everyone here who has a few years on them has "experience" with various kinds of divorce - friends, family, parishioners - and that this, too, is "first-hand" experience, perhaps of a kind that allows for a different and equally valid type of analysis and evaluation. That's all. We are all sorry for your pain.

Scott6

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2010, 06:36:38 AM »
I'll admit, that I am not an "unbiased" or "uninterested party" in these topics surrounding marriage.  Having gone...OK, going through... the betrayal and grief surrounding the end of a marriage leaves you anything but "uninterested."  So, I'm going to try and reign in my anger just a little.

I find it somewhat...interesting...how keen we (as a society here) tend to be in "explaining" away certain issues without paying much attention to the moral and personal implications.  So, for example, we can talk about chastity by attempting to argue about how "possible" it is or isn't.  Or we can speak about infidelity as being the result of psychological pressure or waves and opportunities.  But lost in translation (sometimes) is the very real cost that these things have on us as people.  And I'm not simply referring to the "pain" of the aggrieved parties either.  But seriously, what does it do and say about our humanity when we concede that we just cannot "control" our passions and behaviors.  Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who attempted suicide, so I know something about human frailty and the difficulty of self-control.  Part of my objection around the whole "victim of passion" mentality is that it dis-empowers people.  A key part of my recovery is owning my experience and owning my responsibility.  My ex-wife didn't push me out the door, and it was more than a simple over-powering of my will that occurred that night.  At some point, I consented to die. 

Likewise, at some point my ex-wife consented to break our marital vows.  And for sin there is a remedy... God forgives, I will work for a long time to forgive as well.  Grace abounds for both myself and my ex-wife. 

And yes, I realize that "my experience" is not determinitive.  I only have a small fragment of the answer.  But I do have something valuable in this, something that in other discussions Brian and Charles have been quick to claim that I don't have: experience.  This is not a "disembodied" topic for me... I've been there.  So yes, my experience is nothing more or less than that...my experience.  But it is first-hand experience.

So go ahead and downplay me, Charles.  But maybe, just maybe I have something you can actually acknowledge... 

Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

Again, thank you for sharing, Jerry.  It takes a lot of courage to say what you say on these topics in a forum like this.

kls

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2010, 06:40:59 AM »
I agree, and thank you Pastor Kliner, for sharing such a personal and heart-wrenching experience.  It is very helpful for us to have the understanding you are providing.  This is not an easy forum in which to do so, but we are blessed by your courage.

Kim

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2010, 07:45:38 PM »
I guess maybe it's "okay" if you somehow pick the right guy to move in with first time, eh?   ::)

Well, that sounds a lot like a man leaving his father and mother and joining with his woman, and the two become one flesh.

Maybe to you; not to me, though.


Meanwhile, I am again attempting to update my "Rostered Leader Profile" (something I have yet to successfully accomplish during my 18 years of ministry in the ELCA, meaning that what's on file is what I wrote while still in seminary!) and, among the new items (the form keeps changing) is an entire section that deals with, uh, "relationship status."  

After the spaces for filling in the names of my "Spouse," "Same-Gender Partner," "Previous spouse(s)," and "Previous partner(s) in a civil union or other same-gender relationship that was held out as publicly accountable, lifelong, and monogamous" (yes, that's a direct quotation) comes this:

Quote
If you have more than two previous spouses or previous partners check here and give details in a letter to you synodical bishop.

Three is not a charm?

kyrie eleison, spt+
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 07:47:12 PM by Pastor Zip »
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Charles_Austin

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2010, 10:32:20 PM »
I think it was Samuel Johnson who said "remarriage after a divorce is evidence of the triumph of hope over experience."

Coach-Rev

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Re: Pew Research Study Regarding Marriage
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2010, 08:37:54 AM »
I think it was Samuel Johnson who said "remarriage after a divorce is evidence of the triumph of hope over experience."


At least in my brother's case, it was more evidence of his own stupidity, time after time...  ::)