Author Topic: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12  (Read 2545 times)

Matt

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Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« on: November 19, 2010, 01:18:43 PM »
The following is a thought experiment, and is intended to be fun.

Let's say that you were given the task of choosing 12 individuals (nice, round, symbolic number) to come together as the Koinonia Project as envisioned in Matthew Harrison's paper "It's Time." The only rule is that you should try to represent the full spectrum of LCMS opinion and not try to stack it with your pals. The other rules are up to you.

Should they all be seminary faculty? All pastors? All male? Should they all be prominent theologians? Should bloggers or talk show hosts be included? Should President Harrison be in the room or not? You make the call!

Matt

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 01:20:13 PM »
My 12, without comment and without titles. Please forgive spelling errors:

Dave Benke, Richard Bolland, Marie Meyer, William Chancellor Weedon (couldn't resist!), Luke Biggs, Pam Nielsen, Gerald Kieschnick, Paul McCain, Dean Wenthe, Dale Meyer, Carl Fickensher, and Bill Cwirla

Timotheus Verinus

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2010, 01:46:02 PM »
This is a nuanced, get to know folks better, question..

I am extremely interested in whether Pr. Weedon would be willing to bow out for Dr. Just? Not that I'd make such recommendation, just curious?

TV

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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 02:16:35 PM »
Why only one group of twelve?

"The group (or groups, since a number of local efforts were the prerequisite for the great result of the Formula of Concord) would have to be of modest size, perhaps a dozen or so." [Harrison, "It's Time," p. 11]
Don Kirchner

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Weedon

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 02:19:24 PM »
Weedon would happily bow out to Just, but I think that Pr. Kirchner has just pointed out a very important point:  it needs to start locally.  A top down group from across the synod issuing an authoritative statement of some sort is precisely, in my opinion, what we do NOT need at this juncture.  Rather, the discussion needs to move to where the rubber hits the road:  the individual parishes and their leadership (pastoral and lay) and their inter-relationships and commitments. 

Matt

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 02:38:29 PM »
Why only one group of twelve?

"The group (or groups, since a number of local efforts were the prerequisite for the great result of the Formula of Concord) would have to be of modest size, perhaps a dozen or so." [Harrison, "It's Time," p. 11]

That's why! I'm sticking as close to Pr. Harrison's vision as I can. I certainly hope that there are also district, and even circuit gatherings focussing on the same questions. I think we have a lot of division even at the circuit level. I hope to be involved myself at a low level, and I hope many of the ALPB regulars (at least from the LCMS) will be involved as well, even those with whom I disagree. Whomever sits across the table from Pr. Kirchner will certainly have his or her hands full.  ;D

peter_speckhard

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 03:47:54 PM »
Everybody on the list who doesn't participate here is of suspect relevance. We could easily pick twelve LCMS regulars from this forum and just git 'er done right here online (with perhaps a Lilly grant to get them all together a few times in suitable environs). It'll be just like Hollywood, with a bunch of hotshot, loose canon, go-it-alone theologians who play by their own rules getting results, while the policy hacks dilly-dally about protocol. Except for instead of going it alone, they'd use Lilly's money. 

Timotheus Verinus

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 03:49:54 PM »
Weedon would happily bow out to Just, but I think that Pr. Kirchner has just pointed out a very important point:  it needs to start locally. A top down group from across the synod issuing an authoritative statement of some sort is precisely, in my opinion, what we do NOT need at this juncture.  Rather, the discussion needs to move to where the rubber hits the road:  the individual parishes and their leadership (pastoral and lay) and their inter-relationships and commitments. 

Actually that was my first thought, in remembering the working group we (RMD then) had on District Deacons. It left the instructors, deacons, and congregations using deacons, off the committee. An embarrassing oversight corrected. Actually I think at Synod, it was only finally at the 2010 convention that a Deacon/SMP type was finally on the floor committee, (I could be wrong there) and that result was tabled.

I also imagined many leaders in the Synod who even when active in the Synod, - Jerry Kosberg comes to mind,- tend to try and avoid visibilty and distraction from "keeping on keeping on." How do you get guys like Jerry, who from within, influences the Synod as much or more than the Seminaries. (Now I'm in trouble for bringing up his name LOL. But it is not all about those with recognition, but who is influencing the work of the Synod, in major ways?) I have other names from both parties, but I would be shunned from both parties, if I mentioned them here.  ;D Maybe that is reflective of the task ahead.

You will need to answer the question of how to engage those.

TV
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 03:54:50 PM by TVerinus »
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Timotheus Verinus

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2010, 03:57:35 PM »

OK, I nominate Jerry Kosberg then.

We'll kick former Prez K out.  ;)

Mike

Aaargh now I am in trouble! I definitely will not give out the other names that are significantly influencing the Synod in less than politically visible ways .... I'll toss one more. Mike you may want to think about Eloy? Anyway you guys in LCMS need to ponder that.  ;D

TV
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:00:03 PM by TVerinus »
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Richard Johnson

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2010, 03:59:25 PM »
just someone needed to go, and he is a conservative male like Pr. Bohler.


You mean the rest, other than Marie, are not conservative males?  ::)
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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010, 04:00:23 PM »
Everybody on the list who doesn't participate here is of suspect relevance. We could easily pick twelve LCMS regulars from this forum and just git 'er done right here online (with perhaps a Lilly grant to get them all together a few times in suitable environs). It'll be just like Hollywood, with a bunch of hotshot, loose canon, go-it-alone theologians who play by their own rules getting results, while the policy hacks dilly-dally about protocol. Except for instead of going it alone, they'd use Lilly's money. 

You just want a slot yourself.  ;D
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Timotheus Verinus

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2010, 04:09:38 PM »
Another thought. You might want to add an overseas missionary, with solid theological credentials, who spent 50 years teaching all of our sister synod's pastors what they believe, and didn't know what to do as he stood in Walmart catatonic, as he retired and came home? If you can't thinkl of any, I know couple. Dr. Voelz spent a few weeks with one overseas last summer.

TV
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:16:35 PM by TVerinus »
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Timotheus Verinus

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2010, 04:23:26 PM »
...

<sigh> This is harder and more fun that it first seemed.

Mike

When I set down and made my list of twelve.

1. It had none of the names above (except those I mentioned) yet was a representative cross section. Those Pr Benke would bow out to, those Pr Weedon would bow out to, and those Pr Bolland would bow out to, etc.

2. It occurred to me that 2/3rds would probably decline from battle fatigue in the trenches.

3. They probably had collectively more influence on the Synod than the first list of those well known.

Harder than it seemed indeed!

TV
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ptmccain

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2010, 04:25:31 PM »
Everybody on the list who doesn't participate here is of suspect relevance. We could easily pick twelve LCMS regulars from this forum and just git 'er done right here online (with perhaps a Lilly grant to get them all together a few times in suitable environs). It'll be just like Hollywood, with a bunch of hotshot, loose canon, go-it-alone theologians who play by their own rules getting results, while the policy hacks dilly-dally about protocol. Except for instead of going it alone, they'd use Lilly's money. 

I think it should be run like "The Apprentice" or "Survivor" where contestants have to demonstrate great skill and tenacity under challenging situations put to them.

kls

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Re: Koinonia Project: The Chosen 12
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2010, 04:27:24 PM »
I think it should be run like "The Apprentice" or "Survivor" where contestants have to demonstrate great skill and tenacity under challenging situations put to them.

Do they get to compete for immunity idols and get voted off through the formation of strategic alliances?  Then it could just be seen as politics as usual.  Hmmmph . . . .