Author Topic: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article  (Read 8493 times)

Matt

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2010, 03:31:52 PM »
That was pretty good, Matt. Dr. Benke's lips barely moved while you were typing. . .  ::)

Michael Slusser

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2010, 03:37:37 PM »
Some of the effect may be sociological. RCs who live in a very pluralistic setting, where little that we do "goes without saying" and we have to explain ourselves a lot, develop an ease or at least a habit in dealing with diversity. That is the case whether we are "liberal" or "conservative," providing those terms have any religious meaning. Catholics from more homogeneous settings, such as Italy or Rhode Island, may think that Catholics from pluralistic settings look too ready to adapt to the secular culture, when the truth is that we have to deal with it a lot more than they do.

Mutatis mutandis that may be true of The Lutheran Church --- Missouri Synod, too. Many things may go without saying on the prairies that have to be painstakingly explained in the East Coast cities.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Weedon

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2010, 03:42:54 PM »
Like Sausage Suppers.  This week, folks, stop on by. Noon to six p.m. Too bad Matt's on the coast now.  It's yummy, whole pork sausage, dripping in grease.  Good stuff.  And we go through an unbelievable amount of work to host it every year.  It's supposedly a fund raiser, but the truth is:  our folks just like doing it.  And we - how east coast is this? - happen to believe that OUR sausage is the absolute best on the circuit.  Not to mention the best applesauce, sauerkraut, cranberry sauce and pies.  Okay, I admit it, when it comes to food, the Midwest is NOT humble.

Matt

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2010, 03:52:27 PM »
Yum!

George Erdner

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2010, 03:57:24 PM »
Exactly my point, George. And I certainly didn't miss Pr. Noland's East Coast connection; he knows what he is talking about in this regard.

I think East Coast Lutheranism is characterized by a certain social and theological liberalism and a strong interest in ecumenism along with a "high" evangelical catholic liturgical practice. Exceptions abound, and I'm sure several of you will take strong exception to my characterization.

I will say this: since living in New York and New Jersey I have been richly blessed by the liturgical practice of the LCMS churches that I have attended. My opinion of East Coast Lutheranism is certainly not all negative.

That sounds like a fair characterization, consistent with casual observation. In other words, close enough for rock and roll.

Richard Johnson

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2010, 04:01:27 PM »
Also, I think it is fair to characterize the editorial position of the ALPB as "East Coast Lutheran." Certainly, this is true historically and several of the regular Forum contributors represent the "saltwater" perspective and live in and around New York. One of the reasons I hang out here is to better understand this perspective, as well as the range of opinion in the ELCA. 

Actually, Pr. Noland characterized Forum Letter specifically as representing an "East Coast Lutheran" perspective, and with that specific assertion I must disagree. As Charles pointed out, I, the editor, am a Californian. My family on one side has been in California since 1852 and hadn't dwelt in any state that could be called "east coast" since at least 1810. On the other side, they were mostly more recent immigrants but before coming to California lived in such East Coast places as Nebraska and Idaho.

The associate editor, Pr. Speckhard, is, at least currently, a Wisconsinite.

Browsing through other contributors in the past year, I notice Erma Wolf (South Dakota), Ken Kimball (Iowa), Scott Yakimow (presently Virginia, but I think midwestern roots), Brad Everett (Alberta), Tom Pearson (Texas).

And then Brett Jenkins (Pennsylvania), Jeremy Loesch (Maryland), and Marie Meyer (New York). Doesn't seem like a heavy "East Coast" bunch to me.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Matt

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2010, 04:18:06 PM »
Doesn't seem like a heavy "East Coast" bunch to me.

Perhaps not, but Pr. Hannah's sour grapes article is a classic example of the East Coast Lutheran attitude. He's right about one thing: its time for a new generation to take over. 

George Erdner

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2010, 04:26:52 PM »
Also, I think it is fair to characterize the editorial position of the ALPB as "East Coast Lutheran." Certainly, this is true historically and several of the regular Forum contributors represent the "saltwater" perspective and live in and around New York. One of the reasons I hang out here is to better understand this perspective, as well as the range of opinion in the ELCA. 

Actually, Pr. Noland characterized Forum Letter specifically as representing an "East Coast Lutheran" perspective, and with that specific assertion I must disagree. As Charles pointed out, I, the editor, am a Californian. My family on one side has been in California since 1852 and hadn't dwelt in any state that could be called "east coast" since at least 1810. On the other side, they were mostly more recent immigrants but before coming to California lived in such East Coast places as Nebraska and Idaho.

And yet, despite your geographic heritage, much of what you post is consistent with what is often described as an "East Coast Lutheran perspective". So, perhaps that particular label for that perspective is a misnomer.

Consider how many in the LC-MS are described as having a "German" attitude when their ancestors left der vaterland well over a century ago.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2010, 04:46:54 PM »
Pastor Weedon writes:
I have not found a single region where one could describe the state of Lutherans as all positive or all negative; but east coasters in general (hey, I are one) have a silly and inflated sense of their own importance.  The cool thing about midwesterners is that they (generally) don't.

I comment:
Oh? On journeys to the midwest, I was often "instructed" to remember that they - the Iowans, Nebraskans, and (God help us!) Dakotans - are the "real" Lutherans.
Despite my roots in Iowa and Nebraska, I was apparently grafted on to some eastern vine which made my grapes suspicious.

Matt

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2010, 04:52:56 PM »
I have to say that as a midwesterner living in and around New York City, I've never found New Yorkers to be arrogant or rude.

On the contrary, when our daughter was born, our neighbors in our West 57th Street building amazed us with their generosity and love. I was a bit puzzled the first couple of times I was wished "mazel tov." Subway riders, in particular, are wonderfully courteous: courtesy is required for people to live in such close physical proximity to each other.

What I do like here is an ethic of "mind your own business" among the neighbors. People tend not to pry into each others' business.

Dave Benke

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2010, 05:02:34 PM »
Well, the whole East Coast thing is a joke anyway, isn't it?  The demographics don't lie - Lutheranism is the Flyover Faith.  The ginormous percentage chunk of Lutherans living within three hundred miles of Chicago is not only us as we are but us as the rest of the American world sees us.  We are the Midwest.  Chubbyish, not too talkative - good people, good people.  The Missouri Synod people referenced are either profoundly irritating to many, were thrown out/excised, never got in, or (I believe I'm in a category of my own here) were excised and got back in.  We're just having fun here.  

Will Weedon's mid-level dudgeon is interesting to me - hello Will, did you not graduate from Concordia Bronxville?  Are you going the way of Walter Otten?  It's not really possible, because what makes certainly Dave Scaer, Herman and Walter and some otheres work so well in the Midwest is that they're so obviously not Midwesterners, they're outlandish Auslanders.  What strikes a nerve, I think,  is any intimation that somehow alpb or anything East had anything to do with our new Synodical President's ascent.  That, in the eyes of those who know out there, only tracks through the Southern Illinois Express, the Train that was On Time, a Midwestern Marvel.  

When we meet our Lutheran selves, we are introduced, in the words of Eric Sevareid, to persons possessed of "the matchless pessimism of the Midwestern Lutheran farmer."  "Nosir, it's not gonna rain.  Never will.  But if it does, it's gonna pour buckets.  That you can depend on."  

Matt J, you are on the money.  I'm in the subway, I think the F at Essex, one of those stops where there are long and weird stair patterns (which is 87% of them), and there's a woman in a bhurka with a kid in a stroller at the bottom looking up skatey-eight steps - can't really read the expression behind the bhurka - anyway I take a wheel and say "come on, let's go," when a hand taps me on the shoulder, a guy says "I'll take the other side" and a Hasidic Jewish male full curls and garb  and I pull the kid in th estroller up together with the woman in the bhurka.  The man had  to have violated at least 37 laws there.  No peep of complaint or walking by (in other words nothing Pharasaic, which is the definition of a Hasic), just a helping hand to a Muslim woman with a baby.  I would have loved a picture of that.

Dave Benke

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2010, 05:03:31 PM »
Pastor Weedon writes:
I have not found a single region where one could describe the state of Lutherans as all positive or all negative; but east coasters in general (hey, I are one) have a silly and inflated sense of their own importance.  The cool thing about midwesterners is that they (generally) don't.

I comment:
Oh? On journeys to the midwest, I was often "instructed" to remember that they - the Iowans, Nebraskans, and (God help us!) Dakotans - are the "real" Lutherans.
Despite my roots in Iowa and Nebraska, I was apparently grafted on to some eastern vine which made my grapes suspicious.

That's absurd.  So far as Lutheran-ness goes, Dakotans, Nebraskans, and (choking back the smell of "fertilizer") Iowans are merely wannabe Minnesotans, which is the true home of Lutheranism in the US.  (And among Minnesotans, the only really real Lutherans are the Swedes.  Augustana was a real church body with longevity, integrity, and good worship.  The Norwegian hordes spent so much time fighting, suing, splitting, merging, splitting again, and hating the Swedes to ever get their act together.)

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2010, 05:11:21 PM »
I have to admit that I do not get the "East Coast", "West Coast", "Midwest" thing (even though I do live in the Midwest).

What few people understand is that the cultural, theological and intellectual heart of world Lutheranism is Mississippi. We are the few, the proud, the Mississippi Lutherans. We are in full fellowship with our brothers and sisters from other deep south states so we are not exclusivistic. As to the rest of you.....

Scott6

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2010, 05:13:21 PM »
...Scott Yakimow (presently Virginia, but I think midwestern roots)...

Michigan, born and bred.  My few years here in VA are the first time I've lived outside the Midwest (at least when I lived in the states -- I'm not sure Kenya and Morocco are relevant here).

Charles_Austin

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2010, 05:22:32 PM »
Uh, I'm not sure Michigan is the midwest. You can't be midwest if you've got Detroit.