Author Topic: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article  (Read 8525 times)

Mike Gehlhausen

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Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« on: November 10, 2010, 05:24:25 PM »
Interesting article from Steadfast Lutherans:

ALPB President Evaluates President Harrison’s Election, By Martin R. Noland

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=12761

I know that not everyone here reads Steadfast Lutherans so I thought I'd bring it to the attention of those here.

Mike

Steverem

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 05:42:38 PM »
Quote

The ALPB used to publish Forum Letter . . .


Used to?  Has FL been retired?

Michael Slusser

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 05:43:02 PM »
Interesting article from Steadfast Lutherans:

ALPB President Evaluates President Harrison’s Election, By Martin R. Noland

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=12761

I know that not everyone here reads Steadfast Lutherans so I thought I'd bring it to the attention of those here.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I don't read it, but the reference to ALPB attracted my interest.

The first paragraph raised what's left of my eyebrows with these sentences: The ALPB publishes Lutheran Forum and Lutheran Forum Online. The ALPB used to publish Forum Letter, and also has published an occasional book or two.  It has been known for its advocacy for an “American” form of Lutheranism in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, thus its name.

Forum Letter still comes out (to me at least) and when ALPB started (around WW I?) I thought it was an attempt to build a common voice and discussion in American Lutheranism, which then was in even more different church bodies than it's getting to be now.

Now, back to Noland.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

James_Gale

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 06:10:08 PM »
Interesting article from Steadfast Lutherans:

ALPB President Evaluates President Harrison’s Election, By Martin R. Noland

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=12761

I know that not everyone here reads Steadfast Lutherans so I thought I'd bring it to the attention of those here.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I don't read it, but the reference to ALPB attracted my interest.

The first paragraph raised what's left of my eyebrows with these sentences: The ALPB publishes Lutheran Forum and Lutheran Forum Online. The ALPB used to publish Forum Letter, and also has published an occasional book or two.  It has been known for its advocacy for an “American” form of Lutheranism in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, thus its name.

Forum Letter still comes out (to me at least) and when ALPB started (around WW I?) I thought it was an attempt to build a common voice and discussion in American Lutheranism, which then was in even more different church bodies than it's getting to be now.

Now, back to Noland.

Peace,
Michael

What does Pr. Noland mean when he speaks about a more "American" form of Lutheranism? 

Those of us on the ELCA side of the world might associate that kind of characterization with SS Schmucker's notion of "American Lutheranism."  But this association would probably have little or no place in Missouri's collective memory.   

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 06:20:13 PM »
What does Pr. Noland mean when he speaks about a more "American" form of Lutheranism? 

Those of us on the ELCA side of the world might associate that kind of characterization with SS Schmucker's notion of "American Lutheranism."  But this association would probably have little or no place in Missouri's collective memory.   

Actually, every seminarian at Fort Wayne (and I assume Saint Louis as well) has studied the history of Lutheranism in America. Schmucker is a part of that study along with his American Rescension of the Augsburg Confession.  He stands as a warning about where we never want to go theologically.

James_Gale

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 06:23:51 PM »
What does Pr. Noland mean when he speaks about a more "American" form of Lutheranism? 

Those of us on the ELCA side of the world might associate that kind of characterization with SS Schmucker's notion of "American Lutheranism."  But this association would probably have little or no place in Missouri's collective memory.   

Actually, every seminarian at Fort Wayne (and I assume Saint Louis as well) has studied the history of Lutheranism in America. Schmucker is a part of that study along with his American Rescension of the Augsburg Confession.  He stands as a warning about where we never want to go theologically.

Good to know.  And you are absolutely right.

Do you have any sense as to what Pr. Noland might mean?

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 06:33:31 PM »
What does Pr. Noland mean when he speaks about a more "American" form of Lutheranism?  

Those of us on the ELCA side of the world might associate that kind of characterization with SS Schmucker's notion of "American Lutheranism."  But this association would probably have little or no place in Missouri's collective memory.    

Actually, every seminarian at Fort Wayne (and I assume Saint Louis as well) has studied the history of Lutheranism in America. Schmucker is a part of that study along with his American Rescension of the Augsburg Confession.  He stands as a warning about where we never want to go theologically.

Good to know.  And you are absolutely right.

Do you have any sense as to what Pr. Noland might mean?

I'm not sure. I assume he refers to the American version of Christianity - a basic evangelicalism characterized by non-liturgical worship, non-confessional theology, etc. In other words, a theological melting pot something like the much acclaimed cultural melting pot. Americanized Lutheranism thus becomes indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors.

revjagow

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 06:54:21 PM »
The only thing that ruffled my feathers a bit was the opening paragraph:

Quote
Moderates in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod have not made much comment on the election of Matthew Harrison as President of the LCMS.  This is wise, since they did not expect his election and their political plans for the future would seem uncertain.

First of all, the surprise for most came more from the convention voting for some of the restructuring changes and then electing the person who was a vocal critic of said changes, not so much that the convention opted for a change of administration after ten years of the same person in office.   

Second of all, most moderates I associate with (Atlantic and Southeastern District, PLI, ALPB) will likely be quite happy with Rev. Harrison in office.  In fact, most of us are quite happy to not be politically involved at all.  The thing that would break that laziness is any perceived attempt to purify our church body from said moderates. Here's another vote for that straw poll idea that has been thrown out there from time to time.

Aside from suggesting he research his moderates a bit more, I have little to critique in Noland's article. 
Soli Deo Gloria!

mariemeyer

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 07:42:04 PM »
In other words, a theological melting pot something like the much acclaimed cultural melting pot. Americanized Lutheranism thus becomes indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors.
 
 
 
If this is how Noland understands the origins of the ALPB he is out to lunch.

I happen to have a history of the American Lutheran beginning in 1918.   Names associated with the early years of the ALPB and the American Lutheran include... George Koenig, Paul Lindemann, Arthur Brunn, OP Kretzmann, William Breuning, EJ Friedrich, Henry Wind, AW Brustat, OCJ Hoffmann, Arthur Karl Piepkorn, OA Geisemann, William Buege Jaroslav Pelikan, Theodore Kleinhans, Martin Kretzmann, Robert Gussick.... the list goes on.   To suggest that these men were interested in or promoted an American Luthanism that would become indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors is far from the truth.   

Marie Meyer

 

Daniel L. Gard

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 07:53:20 PM »
In other words, a theological melting pot something like the much acclaimed cultural melting pot. Americanized Lutheranism thus becomes indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors.
 
 
 
If this is how Noland understands the origins of the ALPB he is out to lunch.

I happen to have a history of the American Lutheran beginning in 1918.   Names associated with the early years of the ALPB and the American Lutheran include... George Koenig, Paul Lindemann, Arthur Brunn, OP Kretzmann, William Breuning, EJ Friedrich, Henry Wind, AW Brustat, OCJ Hoffmann, Arthur Karl Piepkorn, OA Geisemann, William Buege Jaroslav Pelikan, Theodore Kleinhans, Martin Kretzmann, Robert Gussick.... the list goes on.   To suggest that these men were interested in or promoted an American Luthanism that would become indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors is far from the truth.   

Marie Meyer

 


As I said, I am not sure what is meant by the term. That is how I understand it, not necessarily how Dr. Noland intended it.

DeHall

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 09:36:37 PM »
In other words, a theological melting pot something like the much acclaimed cultural melting pot. Americanized Lutheranism thus becomes indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors.
 
 
 
If this is how Noland understands the origins of the ALPB he is out to lunch.

I happen to have a history of the American Lutheran beginning in 1918.   Names associated with the early years of the ALPB and the American Lutheran include... George Koenig, Paul Lindemann, Arthur Brunn, OP Kretzmann, William Breuning, EJ Friedrich, Henry Wind, AW Brustat, OCJ Hoffmann, Arthur Karl Piepkorn, OA Geisemann, William Buege Jaroslav Pelikan, Theodore Kleinhans, Martin Kretzmann, Robert Gussick.... the list goes on.   To suggest that these men were interested in or promoted an American Luthanism that would become indistinguishable from its protestant neighbors is far from the truth.   

Marie Meyer

 


mnoland@insightbb.com.   Ask him.

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 10:09:39 PM »

I happen to have a history of the American Lutheran beginning in 1918.  


This would be when Lutherans in the United States were recognizing that worshiping, teaching, and theologizing in German, Swedish, Norwegian, etc. was no longer a good idea.

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Charles_Austin

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 10:50:19 PM »
Steven Writes:
This would be when Lutherans in the United States were recognizing that worshiping, teaching, and theologizing in German, Swedish, Norwegian, etc. was no longer a good idea.

I correct:
No. This would be when Lutherans in the United States were recognizing that worshiping, teaching, and theologizing only in German, Swedish, Norwegian, etc. was no longer a good idea.

mariemeyer

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 10:37:21 AM »
However, it seems clear to me that it does echo Schmucker's "New Measures" in wanting to round off the rougher edges of Lutheran confession so that it might be more palatable to other confessions within American Christianity.

The various theologians mentioned by Dcs. Meyer stand as testimony of this assertion.


Mike: What seems clear to you is off the mark and begs the question of whether you have read anything by these men.   

Marie

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Re: Steadfast Lutherans Reflection On Lutheran Forum Article
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 11:32:35 AM »

I know that Pelikan was lured off by the smells and bells of Eastern Orthodoxy.


In other words, Dr. Pelikan's move to the Orthodox Church is evidence that the ALPB wanted to make the Lutheran Confessions "more palatable to other confessions within American Christianity?

Hmmmm.