Richard,
I'm still trying to understand your disagreement with using the ELCA.ORG site as a way to document what the ELCA says it believes.
The Gnesio document cites both the LCMS and the ELCA web site. The quotes from the LCMS web site include a variety of things from Q/A type resources, documents, etc. The ELCA quotes use the material the ELCA itself posts under the "What We Believe" section of their web site.
Now, I understand that you do not like the fact that the ELCA posts things under the "What We Believe" section of its web site that you find objectionable, that you believe contradict "official" assertions elsewhere, but would you agree that in fact this *is* the very problem the ELCA faces?
In other words, what do you disagree with in my post from earlier this morning:
Perhaps, without intending to, the Gnesio folks have underscored the true problem facing the ELCA.
The ELCA constitution refers to historic Scripture, creeds and confessions and says this is what the ELCA believes.
But, in reality, as sadly demonstrated on the ELCA web site, the very things said to be believed, are subject to severe doubt, distortion, contradiction and even outright denial, in the institutions and leadership structure of the ELCA, as evidenced by the ELCA's official web site posting statements of faith that are diametrically opposed, at many points, to the historic doctrinal standards mentioned in the ELCA constitution. We are all aware of how extensively such things have been taught, for a very long time, to up and coming ELCA pastors throughout the ELCA's seminaries.
Therefore, if we grant Richard's point—and upon further reflection, I'm more than willing to do that—that the Gnesio folks are not quoting from "official" statements of the ELCA, we have an even ore disturbing reality to deal with, in any number of ways, documented for all to see on the ELCA web site.
Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison. Kyrie eleison.