Author Topic: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians  (Read 11181 times)

Charles_Austin

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2010, 05:05:03 PM »
Anyone who believes that medicare is unconstitutional or somehow violates their conscience is perfectly free to reject it as a witness to their beliefs.  ;)

mariemeyer

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2010, 05:12:37 PM »
I'll be 80 in June...guess according to Oboma it's euthanasia for me then anyway.

You do President Obama an injustice!

Marie Meyer

miss daisy

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2010, 05:21:34 PM »
I honor the Office of President! I pray for our President that he may lead our country in a God Pleasing manner.
Beyond that I go to other sources than the media news for my information. I check my material with snoops. He hasn't
impressed me yet!

James_Gale

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2010, 05:25:49 PM »
As presently constituted, the Court would probably agree with you--if that's what their corporate masters wanted anyway.

What hope do we have of civil discourse in this country if our Lutheran pastors seem unable to abide by the Eighth Commandment?  How can we hope to elevate the debate when our moral leaders eschew substantive debate, choosing instead simply to demonize those with whom they disagree?  

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2010, 05:25:58 PM »
Quote
If it was so obviously unconstitutional, then the "tenthers" should take it to the Supreme Court.  As presently constituted, the Court would probably agree with you--if that's what their corporate masters wanted anyway.
No one touches medicare or SS because it's political suicide. Like I said, the discussion is moot because no politician will touch it, regardless of the obvious constitutional violations.

Corporate masters?  ;D Haven't heard that one since the 60s-70s. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, though.

BTW, all ten amendments constitute the Bill of Rights, not just the 1st, 4th, 5th , and 6th.  I am sworn to protect and defend them all (along with the rest of the Constitution), whether I like 'em or not.

Kurt
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 05:29:37 PM by Kurt Weinelt »
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #125 on: November 01, 2010, 05:38:31 PM »
What hope do we have of civil discourse in this country if our Lutheran pastors seem unable to abide by the Eighth Commandment?  How can we hope to elevate the debate when our moral leaders eschew substantive debate, choosing instead simply to demonize those with whom they disagree?

I'll give him some slack....tomorrow will be unpleasant for him as voters register their approval or disapproval of his political philosophy.  I was pretty cranky myself two years ago, though I didn't accuse anybody of being a puppet of some imaginary left-wing puppetmaster. I thought some pretty uncharitable things I never voiced, however! :-X
Kurt
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

LutherMan

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #126 on: November 01, 2010, 05:40:51 PM »
Amen, brother!  I cannot wait for the results.

jpetty

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2010, 06:14:24 PM »
Quote
If it was so obviously unconstitutional, then the "tenthers" should take it to the Supreme Court.  As presently constituted, the Court would probably agree with you--if that's what their corporate masters wanted anyway.
No one touches medicare or SS because it's political suicide. Like I said, the discussion is moot because no politician will touch it, regardless of the obvious constitutional violations.

Corporate masters?  ;D Haven't heard that one since the 60s-70s. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, though.

BTW, all ten amendments constitute the Bill of Rights, not just the 1st, 4th, 5th , and 6th.  I am sworn to protect and defend them all (along with the rest of the Constitution), whether I like 'em or not.

Kurt

Are you currently serving in the military?

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2010, 06:20:12 PM »
Are you currently serving in the military?
Standby reserves--I go if called. However, until that happens I am free to engage in political activity. I can even run for elected office, and have even considered it---but it turns out I have a conscience, so I decided against it. ;D
Kurt
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

George Erdner

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #129 on: November 01, 2010, 06:24:22 PM »
What hope do we have of civil discourse in this country if our Lutheran pastors seem unable to abide by the Eighth Commandment?  How can we hope to elevate the debate when our moral leaders eschew substantive debate, choosing instead simply to demonize those with whom they disagree?

I'll give him some slack....tomorrow will be unpleasant for him as voters register their approval or disapproval of his political philosophy.  I was pretty cranky myself two years ago, though I didn't accuse anybody of being a puppet of some imaginary left-wing puppetmaster. I thought some pretty uncharitable things I never voiced, however! :-X
Kurt

Perhaps you should have made that accusation. Though the puppet metaphor can be seen as containing an element of hyperbole, the truth is that for centuries the political leadership of all modern nations has been more of a committee effort than that of individuals. Individuals do not become candidates for major office without the support and guidance of the collective leadership of major political parties. Sometimes the individual selected by the party leadership to be their candidate is the person who exerts the most influence and therefore leads the party. Sometimes the individual selected by the party leadership is the most attractive and charismatic vote-getter who is still influenced to the point of being controlled by the party leadership. There is a fine line between an elected official being "advised" by the leadership of his party and being "controlled" by the leadership of his party.

It might make us feel better to think that a President of the United States is a self-made individual who rose to the top by his own efforts. The reality is that every President (and state governor, US Senator or Representative, or other elected official in an important office) going back at least a century owes his position to those who supported him and got him elected. And that debt of gratitude must be repaid in direct proportion to the amount of support needed to reach the office he occupies.

Can anyone honestly believe that the current US President doesn't owe many, many favors to the party leadership and supporters who backed him in the Democrat Party primaries against the former Senator from New York? Or that the candidate who lost in 2008 wouldn't also have owed similar political debts had he been elected?

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2010, 07:20:41 PM »

So is welfare illegal too?


That part paid by federal tax dollars.  Separation of powers (and responsibilites) and all that.  Welfare (or relief) is the realm of townships, cities, counties, and states.  And, of course, private charity.

Pax, Steven+
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jpetty

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2010, 07:24:47 PM »

So is welfare illegal too?


That part paid by federal tax dollars.  Separation of powers (and responsibilites) and all that.  Welfare (or relief) is the realm of townships, cities, counties, and states.  And, of course, private charity.

Pax, Steven+

You favor nullification?

James_Gale

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2010, 07:29:46 PM »
What hope do we have of civil discourse in this country if our Lutheran pastors seem unable to abide by the Eighth Commandment?  How can we hope to elevate the debate when our moral leaders eschew substantive debate, choosing instead simply to demonize those with whom they disagree?

I'll give him some slack....tomorrow will be unpleasant for him as voters register their approval or disapproval of his political philosophy.  I was pretty cranky myself two years ago, though I didn't accuse anybody of being a puppet of some imaginary left-wing puppetmaster. I thought some pretty uncharitable things I never voiced, however! :-X
Kurt
Perhaps you should have made that accusation. Though the puppet metaphor can be seen as containing an element of hyperbole, the truth is that for centuries the political leadership of all modern nations has been more of a committee effort than that of individuals.

The "puppet metaphor" is not "hyperbole."  It is wrong and demeaning.  Political leaders most assuredly are subject to different pressures and influences.  But they almost always are very powerful participants in the political process.  Puppets are not participants at all.  They are inert, subject entirely to the whims of their masters.

Ultimately, therefore, this post falls into the same category as Pr. Petty's.

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2010, 07:41:38 PM »
You favor nullification?
That's an interesting issue that constitutional scholars still debate today. It's not a simple issue, for sure, and goes to the very heart of Federalism.  When states try to assume delegated federal powers, the federal government always takes precedence.  

On the other hand, when the federal (national) goverment usurps powers reserved for the people and the states, some scholars believe there is a valid constitutional argument for nullification.

BTW, In our Colorado travels (most of CO being a region on the former Republic of Texas ;)), it seems like I have run into quite a few folks who are not enamored of the federal government, or the two political parties either. Of course, since we camp and hike we avoid cities at all costs, so our impression may be skewed.  Anyhow, beautiful landscape you have there, and colorful political landscape as well!
Kurt
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

jpetty

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Re: Voter's Guide for Serious Christians
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2010, 07:45:52 PM »
You favor nullification?
That's an interesting issue that constitutional scholars still debate today. It's not a simple issue, for sure, and goes to the very heart of Federalism.  When states try to assume delegated federal powers, the federal government always takes precedence.  

On the other hand, when the federal (national) goverment usurps powers reserved for the people and the states, some scholars believe there is a valid constitutional argument for nullification.

BTW, In our Colorado travels (most of CO being a region on the former Republic of Texas ;)), it seems like I have run into quite a few folks who are not enamored of the federal government, or the two political parties either. Of course, since we camp and hike we avoid cities at all costs, so our impression may be skewed.  Anyhow, beautiful landscape you have there, and colorful political landscape as well!
Kurt

Not very much of it was Texas.  In fact, believe it or not, a good chunk of Colorado was actually in Kansas.  (Denver is named for a territorial Kansas governor.)  Kansas let them take the western counties, however, because the Kansas GOP legislature thought (mistakenly) that eastern CO had a lot of Democrats in it.