Mr. Erdner writes:
Perhaps you can explain how a bunch of heterosexuals who agree that the Bible says homosexual sodomy is wrong can somehow reverse the trend of sociey degenerating into depravity (there's no need for scary quotes on those words, I meant them literally, not ironically)
I comment:
But, Mr. Erdner, you aren't out to "reverse the trend" of society. That would be political activism. Ugh! Icky! Yuck!
No, by addressing the issue of sexuality, a congregation is equipping its people to deal with that aspect of their lives, holding up that church's views of marriage and family life, warning about the things that are attempting to undermine the faithful, Christian lives of its people. By addressing the issue of sexuality, a congregation is talking about the commandments.
So, if any congregation is avoiding that issue, there is a huge gap in its teaching.
And people in that congregation cannot then complain if their young people are swayed by other forces.
Mr. Erdner writes:
Perhaps you can explain how a bunch of heterosexuals who agree that the Bible says homosexual sodomy is wrong can somehow reverse the trend of sociey degenerating into depravity (there's no need for scary quotes on those words, I meant them literally, not ironically)
I comment:
But, Mr. Erdner, you aren't out to "reverse the trend" of society. That would be political activism. Ugh! Icky! Yuck!
No, by addressing the issue of sexuality, a congregation is equipping its people to deal with that aspect of their lives, holding up that church's views of marriage and family life, warning about the things that are attempting to undermine the faithful, Christian lives of its people. By addressing the issue of sexuality, a congregation is talking about the commandments.
So, if any congregation is avoiding that issue, there is a huge gap in its teaching.
And people in that congregation cannot then complain if their young people are swayed by other forces.
You forget, I am not the pastor. I do not determine the subject content of the sermons. I do not determine the curricula for Sunday School or other educational programs. I only make sure that there is music for worship, and that the head of the Altar Guild has bread and wine on hand each Sunday for communion.
I also note that you are twisting this to be about larger issues, while I am only referring to discussing the ELCA's diabolical social statements passed in August of 2009, which do far more to promote lives of active engagement in sin and depravity than any lack of congregation-wide discussion of sexual morality.
George,
Charles,
I find some irony here. We are obsessing about this issue right now because, well, someone sat in a church and wanted to be a pastor but couldn't be because the rules said not to. Where these people "leaders" in their congregation? Did they, by their presence, voice, integrity, action, or personal presence, shape or influence the direction or character of the congregation? That is leadership after all. A "Leader" needs no diploma, no certificate, no approving nod from famous men or women that read their college papers. A leader leads. A leader can lead from the center of the organization, sometimes more effectively than from the designated power places.
Sometime back the protestant wings of the church bought into the ideas of "power." Suddenly, her offices of word and sacrament were seen as places of "power." Funny, that is how folks see the papacy as well and they hate it for being power. Yet, in their own churches people did not want to diminish power, though they like to question Roman Catholics why they put put with having such a great powers as bishops and Popes over them, no, they want a certificate that says they now are part of the power. Four years after they sat in that church they now are hanging a certificate of ordination on a wall of an office in some congregation. But are they leaders? If they had no qualities of leadership the certificate will not give it to them. It will give them 10 minutes of time on Sunday morning when the congregation is politely quiet and lets them talk. That is not a picture of leadership. Those that have leadership qualities will do well. Those that do not will use their new found "power" in destructive ways and burn out. They will become the pastors that come to every clergy meeting with new tales of woe that often end in the line: " . . .it's all because I am ____." (fill in the blank: liberal, conservative, a woman, following a woman's ministry, gay, high church; proceed at your own pace.) Some who are not leaders will become quiet pastors who are basically run by a true leader in their congregation. That can be good or bad. Their greatest danger is that they will turn passive aggressive.
Had we as Lutherans, years ago, made it quietly clear that ordination and power were not to be equated and had we taken steps to structure our churches in such a way that a cultural would have arisen that did not use the office that way, we would not ever have been through the entire struggle over ordination as a sign of full inclusion in the church. We might still be ordaining women or gays but we would not ever have had the fights that clearly divide us, though, most likely, we would have had plenty of time to fight over other trivial matters and used our new found time for that purpose.
George, where ever you have found yourself, lead your church. Yes, you! You do not need to be ordained to be a leader. Teach Sunday school but without malice or agenda, just teach it honestly. Become known as a wise and trustworthy presence that people want to listen to and want to respect. Lead your congregation from within and trust that if you are faithful to the word of God that God will use whatever happens there for a blessed purpose.
Charles, wear your heart on your sleeve more often. Leadership demands that one has and expresses an opinion. Being able to follow is, ironically, also a sign of good leadership. But following without critical reflection and merely as a matter of principle is not. Leaders can and do follow other leaders if they sense them to be such, but they do so having stated their opinion and reasons for holding them. It is a larger sign of loyalty that one follow after having expressed one's disagreements than to follow without question. Those who have expressed their intention of remaining ELCA today in spite of clearly stated objections make a greater statement then those who do so because they tow the company line and let not a word of objection slip out.
