Poll

Should a Mosque be allowed to be built near Ground Zero, New York?

Yes
37 (50%)
No
32 (43.2%)
Don't know - No Opinion
5 (6.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Mosque at Ground Zero?  (Read 15082 times)

George Erdner

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #180 on: September 08, 2010, 03:18:57 PM »
Matter of fact, I'm surprised that, since many "mainstream, liberal Protestant denominations" have denounced the Florida pastor, certain folks here have not come to his defense.
You have often complained here about how you are treated, stereotyped, and denegrated by other participants in these fora.  You have complained about how some tend to clump people together for categorical put downs.  I suppose your justification for this post is that since others have behaved badly, you are justified in doing the same.  Oh, yes, did I mention how you have complained how some justify their bad behavior by the bad behavior of others.

If you are going to accuse some who post on these fora ("certain folks here") of defending this pastor's projected Qu'ran burning, or at least of being the sort of unthinking, knee jerk reacting people who would naturally support such an action simply because many "mainstream, liberal Protestant denominations" have opposed him, please, trot out the names of those whom you accuse.  Where is your evidence, or do your broadside slaps at your fellow Lutherans (or do you not recognize people like that as fellow Lutherans) not need specificity?  Please, lay out your accusations so that we all know who you regard thus.

Dan

Not to mention his response to my post in which he left out part of what I wrote in the material he quoted to pervert and twist the meaning of what I said. That's inexcusable.

Charles_Austin

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #181 on: September 08, 2010, 03:21:09 PM »
I mused that some here might be reluctant to oppose the Florida pastor because it might - OMG! - put them in temporary league with mainline liberal churches; and Pastor Fienan writes:
If you are going to accuse some who post on these fora ("certain folks here") of defending this pastor's projected Qu'ran burning, or at least of being the sort of unthinking, knee jerk reacting people who would naturally support such an action simply because many "mainstream, liberal Protestant denominations" have opposed him, please, trot out the names of those whom you accuse.  Where is your evidence, or do your broadside slaps at your fellow Lutherans (or do you not recognize people like that as fellow Lutherans) not need specificity?  Please, lay out your accusations so that we all know who you regard thus.

So I respond:
Lighten up. I make no accusations. Just recalling earlier conversations on this board where it was said that because a group does not take a stand against all abortions, the "pro-life" people here cannot work with that group to support something on which they all agree.
So I'll ask it another way: If the ELCA, United Church of Christ, Episcopal Church and United Methodist Church got up a petition opposing the action of this guy in Florida, would people here sign on?  Or would they shrink from being identified with such folk?

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12583
    • View Profile
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #182 on: September 08, 2010, 03:24:10 PM »
Is it just coiincidence that all these self-appointed "experts" on Islam happen to be Bible-belt preachers?
We have been instructed on the dangers of sexism, ageism, ableism, raceism, looksism and many other evils of prejudice.  We need a new category - geographism - prejudice against and stereotyping of people because where they are from or where they reside.  This kind of prejudice is at least as old as the Bible (can anything good come out of Nazareth/).  Just because someone is from the south does that automatically mean that they are of lower intellegence and lacking in sophistication in thinking?  Everybody knows that the Bible-belt is usually considered to be in the southeast of America.  Or is the stereotyping here that anyone who takes the Bible seriously cannot be an agile thinker?  Way to stereotype, Pr. Petty.

Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Dan Fienen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 12583
    • View Profile
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #183 on: September 08, 2010, 03:28:41 PM »
I mused that some here might be reluctant to oppose the Florida pastor because it might - OMG! - put them in temporary league with mainline liberal churches; and Pastor Fienan writes:
If you are going to accuse some who post on these fora ("certain folks here") of defending this pastor's projected Qu'ran burning, or at least of being the sort of unthinking, knee jerk reacting people who would naturally support such an action simply because many "mainstream, liberal Protestant denominations" have opposed him, please, trot out the names of those whom you accuse.  Where is your evidence, or do your broadside slaps at your fellow Lutherans (or do you not recognize people like that as fellow Lutherans) not need specificity?  Please, lay out your accusations so that we all know who you regard thus.

So I respond:
Lighten up. I make no accusations. Just recalling earlier conversations on this board where it was said that because a group does not take a stand against all abortions, the "pro-life" people here cannot work with that group to support something on which they all agree.
So I'll ask it another way: If the ELCA, United Church of Christ, Episcopal Church and United Methodist Church got up a petition opposing the action of this guy in Florida, would people here sign on?  Or would they shrink from being identified with such folk?
Pr. Austan, why not? If that is all that the petition was about. 
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

ptmccain

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #184 on: September 08, 2010, 03:49:39 PM »
Though it must also be said, as I just read on another blog site:


Some of the same outlets that will tar and feather Terry Jones for acts of ignorance and intolerance would do the same over the issue of homosexuality, creation, and resurrection. At this point, their audiences will agree that the Koran burning is what ignorant people do; tomorrow their audience may also agree that faith in the God of the Bible is the kind of thing people like Terry Jones believe.

Charles_Austin

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #185 on: September 08, 2010, 04:03:24 PM »
Why not, indeed, Pastor Fienan. I was only recalling a "conversation" far upstream in which it was said: "If you do not agree with me on abortion, I will not work with you on issues relating to health care for poor children."

Mike Bennett

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #186 on: September 08, 2010, 04:32:04 PM »
The pastor in question is a nut job, through and through.


Unaccustomed as I am . . . . . Hear! Hear!

Mike Bennett
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

pbnorth3

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #187 on: September 08, 2010, 07:30:49 PM »
If the goal is to CONVERT Muslims and not irritate them, then I don't see the point of this. I don't believe this pastor has any point except to make news though.

Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ!
Rob Buechler

wildiris

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #188 on: September 08, 2010, 08:15:45 PM »
Thought this might add to the mix.  The military burned up Bibles in Afghanistan to avoid offending Muslims. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/

pbnorth3

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #189 on: September 08, 2010, 10:43:56 PM »
Thought this might add to the mix.  The military burned up Bibles in Afghanistan to avoid offending Muslims. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/


Yes, but as my mamma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ!
Rob Buechler

P.S. I can't resist saying this though. It is an easier thing to burn Bibles when you know the Christians won't burn down villages because of it, but burning a Koran could get a whole lot of people killed. Same reason that blaspheming Jesus is "safer" for some television channels than poking fun at Mohammed. The reactions are not the same, although at the eternal judgment I hear that those who disdained Jesus here do have hell to pay.

Charles_Austin

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #190 on: September 08, 2010, 10:49:16 PM »
Here's the key info in that story:
The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

J. Thomas Shelley

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
    • View Profile
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #191 on: September 08, 2010, 10:50:23 PM »
. I don't believe this pastor has any point except to make news though.


When one's congregation is not much more than a personality cult---and I have known several such self anointed pseudomessiahs--there is frequent subcumbing to the temptation of being a publicity whore.
Greek Orthodox-Ecumenical Patriarchate

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, eve of Mary of Egypt Sunday, A.D. 2015

Scott6

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #192 on: September 09, 2010, 07:39:14 AM »
A relevant article in the NYTimes entitled "Imam Says Moving Center Could Spur Radicals".

Here's an excerpt from imam Feisal Abdul Rauf:

“If I knew that this would happen, that this would cause this kind of pain, I wouldn’t have done it,” the imam told Soledad O’Brien on “Larry King Live” on CNN in his first extensive televised remarks since the controversy ballooned after the project cleared its last legal hurdle last month. “My life has been devoted to peacemaking.”

But the imam said he could not withdraw the plan because that would embolden radicals of all faiths and create security risks for the United States and Americans abroad.

“If we move from that location, the story will be that the radicals have taken over the discourse,” he said. “The headlines in the Muslim world will be that Islam is under attack. And I’m less concerned about the radicals in America than I am about the radicals in the Muslim world.”


He also says that there will be "prayer spaces" in the center for Muslims, Jews and Christians.

Finally, he apologizes for his saying that the US was an "accessory" to the 9/11 attacks, saying that he said it as part of telling the "unpleasant truth" as a "marriage counselor," but now regrets his comments as not being very "compassionate."
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 07:42:01 AM by Scott Yakimow »

TravisW

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #193 on: September 09, 2010, 07:52:46 AM »
If the goal is to CONVERT Muslims and not irritate them, then I don't see the point of this. I don't believe this pastor has any point except to make news though.

Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ!
Rob Buechler

That's the problem I have with it.  It's not as though burning Korans will influence any Muslim to have faith in Christ.  It's a stupid publicity stunt. 

James Gustafson

  • Guest
Re: Mosque at Ground Zero?
« Reply #194 on: September 09, 2010, 08:20:52 AM »
Here's the key info in that story:
The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.


I disagree, I think the key info is this:
Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

They decided not to send them back because they might be redistributed through a non-military avenue and then traced back to them?  Did the Bibles list the military somewhere inside?  If so, then fine, I agree, if not, then hogwash.