Speaking only for Fort Wayne (though I believe that the same is true at Saint Louis), women are fully integrated in almost all courses with men. Much of the M.A. degree program overlaps with the M.Div. As a result, I will have both men and women in my Pent I, Major Prophets and even Pastoral Counseling classes this Fall. This is a very different dynamic than a few years ago but I think a healthy one. Incidently, some of my best students are the women.
To add to Paul's comment, the new Lutheran Witness editor is Adriane Dorr, who received her M.A. from CTSFW last year. This is an amazing young woman with tremendous skills and a sharp theological mind. She is also a strongly confessional Lutheran who understands and supports our Synod's theology.
Thank you Chaplain Gard. I was hoping you would respond. Your reply provides some insights that those in the ELCA/LCMC/NALC may not appreciate.
First, the mistaken thought that women are diminished or limited in Confessional bodies, in capability or training. That simply is not true. My wife along with Systematics and OT and Pastoral Care, also took two Homietics and two Liturgy classes. (are those to be for MDiv only?) These have stood her very well in her work in Women's Prison's even where a formal "DS" setting is not present. She was not prohibited in LCMS nor AALC. The young LCMS deaconess (MAR) down the road was known for her brilliant classroom work at St. Louis a few years back. All these talents are appreciated. While I agree with everyone's opinion of Erma's message at the recent Core convocation, I have heard the same, from LCMS trained women appreciated by those they spoke to. My wife's presentation to the AALC convention met our simple criteria... "they laughed in Joy, they cried in repentence, they heard about Jesus," and powerfully so. The confessional Lutheran bodies do not say that women are not as capable, and often on occasion and circumstance more so, than many men at that level. That is not the confessional argument.
The second point running through the thread is whether, if LCMC/NALC women were allowed into MAR etc. classes at FtW and SL, with some sort of passive knowledge that this would be a part of an MDiv program, what is it they would learn there? We already have examples of folks like Sandra who in study at ELCA schools became aware of a different understanding of God's Word, that led her to decline the path she was on. Your example of Dcs Dorr, Paul's examples, and the two I bring above, indicate that they will be influenced to confessional teachings on WO, and not come out with a passion - "to be a pastor." That might be something LCMC/NALC would want to think about.
Of course, my discussions on things like TCT and buzz phrases like "order of creation" in LCMS, are still part of the conversation, but I wouldn't take those to mean that what Chaplain Gard and others might teach at the LCMS sems are ever going to come from the same world view, same theological perspective, as those that have touched LCMC/NALC. They self evidently are not. And despite rumors, the women in training there are not compelled to shut up, listen, and take notes. They engage. As above those professors encourage, in patient spirit, discussing and struggling through those questions. The answers they arrive at mirror the experiences Scott made note of.
The question may not be, "Will LCMS let us?" but "Do you really want to send them there?" because they are going to teach from their hermeneutic. And it is powerfully compelling, and not an obsolete conservatism. The AALC answered, "yes,. we
'really,' want to send our people there," but then we only ordain men as pastors. That's a result we expect.
TV
PS. For Paul - A
friendly barb in reply
...
I have a hunch that a number of the LCMS folks here ... have very little meaningful contact with .. M.A. level type women, in the terms of a close, working relationship ... I find that rather, well, amusing, actually.
And some who work in Synodical agencies and seminaries, do not have close working relationships and shining witness with those women at the congregation, who toil in small church basements, prison cells, hospital rooms, and the homes of simple pew sitters in "Nowhere Wilderness North Dakota." What is seen in both places is the same, none the less, even if the game they talk is only about, the one deaconess at their church. Don't make enemies of your allies.
