Casual notes

Started by Charles_Austin, July 21, 2010, 06:12:44 AM

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Charles_Austin

Pastor McCain writes:
And that's part of the problem with the LWF, where a whole lot of issues get a lot of attention, but not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and our Lord's mission.

I comment:
Do you get some kind of kick, Pastor McCain, by such an uninformed silly ejaculation? How can you possibly make such a comment without being present?
In every report, every study document, every greeting from guests, every sermon, every prayer, and nearly every comment in the plenary discussion, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is cited, praised, uplifted and honored.
(oops, I forgot. Since every speech here is not against women's ordination, anything said here cannot be "real" Gospel.)

ptmccain

Rev. Austin wrote:
So.... What about evangelism? What about winning the world for Christ? The thing is, an Assembly is not where those sort of things emerge.

I responded:
And that's part of the problem with the LWF, where a whole lot of issues get a lot of attention, but not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and our Lord's mission. The Gospel assumed, is the Gospel denied.

Rev. Austin responded, by missing the point.

I still have to say that his comment that evangelism and the Great Commission are not the sorts of things the LWF Assembly deals with to be a shocking admission of theological poverty. I may be alone in this opinion, but it seems to me that if the LWF Assembly has the time to talk about global hunger, and the wide variety of socio-political issues it seems particularly fascinated by, it might be able to carve out a few hours to talk about global outreach with the Good News of Jesus Christ.

Charles_Austin

And Pastor McCain willfully misses the point again. Did I not say that the Gospel in all its varied expressions permeated this Assembly?
But I despair of trying to explain anything to Pastor McCain.

ptmccain

Rev. Austin, you were the one who noted that Evangelism and reaching the world for Christ are not issues dealt with at an LWF Assembly when you wrote:

So.... What about evangelism? What about winning the world for Christ? The thing is, an Assembly is not where those sort of things emerge.

If you meant to say that "The Assembly is the place where evangelism and winning the world for Christ emerge" then perhaps you need to revise your post.

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: ptmccain on July 26, 2010, 03:54:37 PM
Rev. Austin, you were the one who noted that Evangelism and reaching the world for Christ are not issues dealt with at an LWF Assembly when you wrote:

So.... What about evangelism? What about winning the world for Christ? The thing is, an Assembly is not where those sort of things emerge.

If you meant to say that "The Assembly is the place where evangelism and winning the world for Christ emerge" then perhaps you need to revise your post.

How was your LCMS national convention a place "where evangelism and winning the world for Christ" emerged? Most of what I read about the proceedings were squabblings between factions.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Steven Tibbetts

#20
Quote from: ptmccain on July 26, 2010, 02:55:37 PM

And that's part of the problem with the LWF, where a whole lot of issues get a lot of attention, but not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and our Lord's mission. The Gospel assumed, is the Gospel denied.

Having attended the previous LWF Assembly in Winnipeg, working as a volunteer both on the Assembly floor and in the smaller ("village") groups, Paul, I must say that your impression of the LWF is very much mistaken.  

Pax et bonum, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

ptmccain

Steven, I was responding to Rev. Austin's remarks explaining why Evangelism is not a subject dealt with at LWF Assemblies, which are not, as he put it, the best place for such issues.

Perhaps you would care to offer Rev. Austin some corrections based on your experiences?

Charles_Austin

My apologies for falling into Pastor McCain's trap. He intentionally misreads my words and then...  takes his usual shots.
I should have been more precise. The Gospel, the sacraments, Lutheran heritage and mission are at the heart of what is going on at the Assembly. But this is not an evangelism workshop, nor is it a rally for evangelists. Lutherans are here to celebrate their communion, encourage one another, work out additional ways to serve those in need and make a common voice where possible on issues that bring misery to our fellow human beings. It is a proclamation of the gospel united with service to those in need.
Thanks to Pastor Tibbetts who knows the LWF from some personal experience.

Bergs

Rev. Austin:
Thank you for your notes and observations.  They are well written and informative.  Your professionalism shows and is appreciated.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
But let me tell Thee that now, today, people are more persuaded than ever that they have perfect freedom, yet they have brought their freedom to us and laid it humbly at our feet. But that has been our doing.
The Grand Inquisitor

Steven Tibbetts

Quote from: ptmccain on July 26, 2010, 04:20:26 PM
Steven, I was responding to Rev. Austin's remarks explaining why Evangelism is not a subject dealt with at LWF Assemblies, which are not, as he put it, the best place for such issues.

Perhaps you would care to offer Rev. Austin some corrections based on your experiences?

What Pastor Austin wrote is:
Quote from: Charles_Austin on July 26, 2010, 02:53:26 PM
Yet in "village groups" that have been meeting each day, these issues took life.
So.... What about evangelism? What about winning the world for Christ? The thing is, an Assembly is not where those sort of things emerge. Evangelism is local and contextual, so it is more likely to be discussed in the regional meetings - and it was - than in the international Assembly.


I would suggest that such discussions indeed happen in the regional meetings and the village groups and in other discussions happening during and surrounding the LWF Assembly, that Pastor Austin's comments might have said that better than they did (though these are "Casual Notes"), and that you read Pastor Austin's note all prepared for a "gotcha" from which to put a worse construction on the LWF.

The LWF includes churches with whom you all in the LCMS are in Altar and Pulpit Fellowship and others with whom you all are engaging in serious conversation that could lead to the same sort of relationship.  I should think you would want to be more careful about being ablaze with blanket condemnations.

Pax, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

Lutheranistic

Quote from: Bergs on July 26, 2010, 05:47:35 PM
Rev. Austin:
Thank you for your notes and observations.  They are well written and informative.  Your professionalism shows and is appreciated.

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

Ditto. There is no one else I know of who is present there and would be willing to keep us informed in this way. Thank you, Pr. Austin.

Charles_Austin

#26
The virtual LWF Eleventh Assembly "experience" can be found on the Assembly website. My comments are just to add some personal observations and bring to this particular group some things that might (or might not) interest the people here.
The moderator kindly warned certain participants earlier that if "this entire board has been ruined by uncharitable slams at the LWF by persons not affiliated with it, heads will roll."
So maybe we should at least ignore the snipes by those not affiliated with the LWF but nonetheless still possessing their heads.

Lutheranistic

Just think of yourself as sort of "Kipling-esque", Pr. Austin. Kinda suits you.  :)

Charles_Austin

Yep.
And it reminds me of an old English major joke.
English major in a university pub, to the blonde on the barstool next to him: "Do you like Kipling?"
Blonde: Gee, I don't think I've ever kipled.

Lutheranistic


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