Feast of the Holy Innocents

[Brian Stoffregen]

Pr. Stoffregen, would not all the martyrs be under the blood of Christ?  Is the cross an eternal (past-present-future) event, so that even those saints killed (like the Prophets) pointed to Christ and are covered by his blood in that way?  I like the distinction that Pr. Yakimow has made here (if this follows his point).

Perhaps similar to a distinction Scott makes (and he'll correct me if not,) the Messiah proclaimed by the prophets for whom they died, takes on a different character or aeon with the birth of Jesus, the Messiah/Suffering Servant. The parallel that I see with Scott, is his suggestion that the "Christian" aeon didn't start until the descent of the Power at Pentecost, even though that same Spirit was present in the prophets, and uniquely present in Jesus through the miraculous conception.

I'm suggesting that the martyrdom of the Holy Innocents was not quite like the prophets, but happened specifically because of the reality of Jesus, not just because of an idea of a promised Messiah. Thus it is more like that of Stephen and the later martyrs who were killed for proclaiming Jesus.

Scott's argument fits better in the gospel of Luke, except that there are no Holy Innocents in that gospel. Some scholars conclude that Luke/Acts divides history into three aeons: the prophetic one from the beginning of time up to and including John the Baptist. Luke tells us that John removed from his ministry by being locked up in prison (3:20) before he tells us about Jesus' baptism, with the visible descent of the Spirit and the divine speech (3:21-22)! The old aeon ends and the Christ-aeon begins. Similarly, in Luke/Acts, Jesus is removed from his direct ministry (the Ascension -- Luke 24:51 / Acts 1:9) before the aeon of the church begins with the visible descent of the Spirit and divine speech (Pentecost - Acts 2:1-12). The dividing events are Jesus' baptism and Pentecost.

Matthew's divisions are different -- the aeon of God-with-Us begins with the birth of Jesus (Mt 1:23); and we are promised that this Jesus will be with us always, to the end of the age (Mt 28:28). The dividing event is the miraculous conception & birth. Praise and opposition to Jesus begins within two years of his birth.

[Richard Johnson]

We did St. John.

Uhhh... Ummmm...  I suppose that's no longer against V&E, right?  

You know, sometimes we just stop sending issues of FL to people who tick us off, even if there's a paid subscription involved.  

Flag.  15 yard penalty.  For use of kissy-face icon in disturbing context...


 

Shouldn't you be reading? 

[Weedon]

I dearly love the hymn that Aurelius Prudentius Clemens wrote for this feast day:

Sweet flow'rets of the martyr's band
Plucked by the tyrant's ruthless hand
Upon the threshold of the morn,
Like rosebuds by a tempest torn;

First victims for the incarnate Lord,
A tender flock to feel the sword;
Beside the altar's ruddy ray,
With palm and crown you seem to play.

Ah, what availed King Herod's wrath?
He could not stop the Savior's path.
Alone, while others murdered lay,
In safety Christ is borne away.

O Lord, the virgin-born, we sing
Eternal praise to You, our King,
Whom with the Father we adore
And Holy Spirit evermore.

Aurelius Prudentius Clemens (348-c. 413)
LSB 969 [Accompaniment Edition]

Here is Pastor Ben Mayes singing the traditional Gregorian for it from the Brotherhood Prayer Book:

http://www.llpb.us/MP3Hymns/SeasonalPropers/304%20Hymn,%20Sweet%20Flowrets.MP3

[Dave_Poedel]

Just out of curiosity:  How many celebrated the First Sunday after Christmas Day and how many celebrated the Feast of St. John?  (I went with John this year.)  Just as Peter was commanded to "follow me" (and stop worrying about keeping up with the Joneses or the Johns), so we are called in the waters of Baptism to "follow the Christ."  Christmas tie-in:  The wood of the manger must always remind us of the wood of the cross.

Sorry if I misappropriated this thread.  You may now return to the Holy Innocents...

Actually, I went with St.Stephen, and the life of Christian witness (martyrdom) connected with the radical disturbance of Christ's birth into the history of fallen humanity vs. our sentimentalized "Peace on Earth" Christmas celebrations.  One member said "it was shockingly effective" about my sermon.

[PrSabin]

We did St. John.

One possibility for undertsanding the Holy Innocents is to see them in the whole context of the Comites Christi:

St. Stephen: Martyr in will and deed
St. John: Martyr in will but not in deed.
Holy Innocents: Martyrs in deed but not in will.

SPS

[Weedon]

Pr. Sabin,

That's exactly what Pr. Gleason did here at St. Paul's when he preached St. John's on Sunday:  tied the three feasts together with "Christmas is for martyrs."  It was a magnificent homily. 

[FatherWilliam57]

Pr. Sabin,

That's exactly what Pr. Gleason did here at St. Paul's when he preached St. John's on Sunday:  tied the three feasts together with "Christmas is for martyrs."  It was a magnificent homily. 

Took me a year to remember this, but I looked that sermon up on your blog today.  Thank you for posting it, and when you see Pastor Gleason, please thank him on my behalf for the fine proclamation!  (I am planning on preaching on the Companions of Christ on the Feast of Stephen this year.  I hope my proclamation is at least half as good as Pr. Gleason's.)

For what it's worth:  I plan on using all three of the Prayer of the Day for Stephen, John, and Innocents.  Looking at using the Acts 7 passage for Stephen, the Epistle for John (1 John 1:1-2:2), and the Gospel for Innocents in place of the usual lectionary for Christmas I.  Any comments or opinions on this?

[Weedon]

Fr. William,

I copied your message and forwarded it to Pr. Gleason. 

At St. Paul's this year, we'll be doing the historic readings for the First Sunday after Christmas.  We've not done them in some time, and I want those pericopes, particularly the epistle, heard again.  But we will observe St. John's and Holy Innocents on Monday and Tuesday.

[Jeremy Loesch]

Father William, I am including the collects for the first Sunday after Christmas, Stephen, Innocents, and John in our service.  For the lessons, it will be for the first Sunday after Christmas.  I'm looking forward to connecting these three festivals.

Jeremy

[J. Thomas Shelley]

I will be using the Propers for St. Stephen the Protomartyr.  We will sing "Good King Wenceslaus" as the Hymn of the Day.

Two years ago I noted with sadness that the 2008-2009-2010 pattern of celebrating all of the Comitas will not be repeated again until 2038 when I am in my late seventies and long retired, if not returned to earth and ashes.

[FatherWilliam57]

Two years ago I noted with sadness that the 2008-2009-2010 pattern of celebrating all of the Comitas will not be repeated again until 2038 when I am in my late seventies and long retired, if not returned to earth and ashes.

Ah, who are we kidding?  We'll both still be preaching!   

[Michael Slusser]

Since Paul McCain has sent me back to the collected poems of G. K. Chesterton, it may be timely to share this:

THE NEGLECTED CHILD

(DEDICATED, IN A GLOW OF CHRISTMAS CHARITY, TO A PHILANTHROPIC SOCIETY)

The Teachers in the Temple
   They did not lift their eyes
For the blazing star on Bethlehem
   Or the Wise Men grown wise.

They heeded jot and tittle,
   They heeded not a jot
The rending voice of Ramah
   And the children that were not.

Or how the panic of the poor
   Choked all the field with flight,
Or how the red sword of the rich
   Ran ravening through the night.

They made their notes; while naked
   And monstrous and obscene
A tyrant bathed in all the blood
   Of men that might have been.

But they did chide Our Lady
   And tax her for this thing,
That she had lost Him for a time
   And sought Him sorrowing.

[Michael Slusser]

For an excellent sermon on this feast (by Pastor Scott Yakimow): http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=2573.msg133439#msg133439

Peace,
Michael

[MRoot]

For an excellent sermon on this feast (by Pastor Scott Yakimow): http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=2573.msg133439#msg133439

Peace,
Michael

That the Holy Innocents are redeemed, despite the absence of baptism or anything that might plausibly be called a desire for baptism, plays a role in the text from the Catholic "International Theological Commission" on the possible salvation of unbaptized infants (well worth reading; it can be found here:  http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html)  As Fr Slusser notes (hi, Mike!), an analogy is particularly drawn with the fate of aborted infants.
The text states:
86. b) Some of the infants who suffer and die do so as victims of violence. In their case, we may readily refer to the example of the Holy Innocents and discern an analogy in the case of these infants to the baptism of blood which brings salvation. Albeit unknowingly, the Holy Innocents suffered and died on account of Christ; their murderers were seeking to kill the infant Jesus. Just as those who took the lives of the Holy Innocents were motivated by fear and selfishness, so the lives particularly of unborn babies today are often endangered by the fear or selfishness of others. In that sense, they are in solidarity with the Holy Innocents. Moreover, they are in solidarity with the Christ who said: “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me” (Mt 25:40). How vital it is for the Church to proclaim the hope and generosity that are intrinsic to the Gospel and essential for the protection of life.

[Michael Slusser]

I've also been struck by the story of Lazarus, the poor man, who winds up in the bosom of Abraham, who explains to the rich man (Lk 16.25), "Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things, but now he is comforted here . . . ." Nowhere in the parable does Jesus say that  Lazarus was a good man, only that he had had a very hard life. Certainly faith doesn't come up. Does God care for the downtrodden and broken-hearted on God's own general principles?

Peace,
Michael