Author Topic: The Lutheran Study Bible  (Read 22514 times)

Dave Likeness

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #225 on: January 22, 2013, 11:59:01 AM »
 TLSB was compiled with the intended audience
as the laity of the LCMS.  The primary and foremost
concern was to have footnotes that emphasized
the doctrinal position of the LCMS.  Obviously, others
beside the target audience have purchased and
benefited from reading this study Bible.

Dan Fienen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #226 on: January 22, 2013, 12:27:20 PM »
Is it the job of a church body to lay before the laity the wide range of thought and opinion as to what is taught in the Bible according to differing confessional and scholarly traditions leaving it up to the laity to sort through it all and come to the opinion that tickles their fancy?  Or is it the job of a church body to produce material for the laity that will education them as to how the church to which they belong understands what Scripture teaches?  Where does education end and indoctrination begin? 
 
Of course if Mr. Teigen truly feels that one of the most interesting facts concerning the LCMS is the facial hair of our leader and parallels with other German leaders with facial hair, that perhaps explains some of his distaste for the LCMS trying to present its position.
 
A leader of a German organization with a mustache?  Where might I have seen that one before?

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Dan
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #227 on: January 22, 2013, 12:46:05 PM »
What's the matter, Dan?  Can't you take a joke?   I don't hate the Missouri Synod.  It's a venerable institution.  Of late, in my opinion,  it seems to have veered away from Lutheranism insofar as the Doctrine of the Two Kingdoms is concerned but I think that it is a pretty good synod, as synods go.  There is a spirit of crusaderism going on which is apparent to some of us looking on from the sidelines.  This perception is confirmed by personal e-mail from other observers, some from within the LC-MS.

The congregation of which I am a member is a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod.  We are small and dependent on larger ecclesiastical institutions to validate our identity and existence.   We look to Missouri for guidance and purpose, even though we are not in fellowship.  The leadership of the ELS has predicted that we only have about twenty more years of existence ahead of us.  In these twenty years we need to find a church group that will be palatable to our survivors and which will be willing to take us in.

Missouri under the incumbent president seems to be willing to get to know us a little bit better.  We publicly endorse the incumbent Missouri president's social crusade and this might lead us into the paths of righteousness as expressed  by the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.

Of course, since church bodies are made up of humans, it is possible that not all of these developments will come to pass.  Cranky old people like me (I am now 70) are unlikely to live to see these rapturous occurrences or even to approve everything that goes on.  Some of us have principles, too.

The Lutheran Study Bible is an important social and cultural document relevant to these matters.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Norman Teigen

Dan Fienen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #228 on: January 22, 2013, 03:22:49 PM »
What's the matter, Dan?  Can't you take a joke?   I don't hate the Missouri Synod.  It's a venerable institution.  Of late, in my opinion,  it seems to have veered away from Lutheranism insofar as the Doctrine of the Two Kingdoms is concerned but I think that it is a pretty good synod, as synods go.  There is a spirit of crusaderism going on which is apparent to some of us looking on from the sidelines.  This perception is confirmed by personal e-mail from other observers, some from within the LC-MS.

The congregation of which I am a member is a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod.  We are small and dependent on larger ecclesiastical institutions to validate our identity and existence.   We look to Missouri for guidance and purpose, even though we are not in fellowship.  The leadership of the ELS has predicted that we only have about twenty more years of existence ahead of us.  In these twenty years we need to find a church group that will be palatable to our survivors and which will be willing to take us in.

Missouri under the incumbent president seems to be willing to get to know us a little bit better.  We publicly endorse the incumbent Missouri president's social crusade and this might lead us into the paths of righteousness as expressed  by the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.

Of course, since church bodies are made up of humans, it is possible that not all of these developments will come to pass.  Cranky old people like me (I am now 70) are unlikely to live to see these rapturous occurrences or even to approve everything that goes on.  Some of us have principles, too.

The Lutheran Study Bible is an important social and cultural document relevant to these matters.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Well that explains it.
 
I was given a copy of this study bible and I perused it for a while and then gave it away.  There is limited interest here because of the narrowness of the agenda.   There is an absence of dimension in the  scholarship here.  There are no female scholar essays here as there is in the ELCA edition.  The editor, a well known Lutheran Celebrity blogger who was once, I am told, seen on these pages,  pays honor to the women who served the editor and the writers but it is almost as though he was thanking them for making photocopies, serving cookies, and preparing coffee. 

This book and the ELCA book of the same title demonstrate interesting theological differences between the two Lutheran groups.  The two editions might make museum pieces which show differences between the ELCA and the LC-MS.   For those of us with broader perspectives there is something to be learned from both sides of the confessional chasm.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

To Jeremy Loesch:  Hunh?

The LC-MS Study Bible, it seems, isn't so much about scholarship as it is about indoctrinating the faithful to the correct interpretation of the Scriptures and the Confessions.  Elsewhere on the ALB Forum, quite recently,  I found a link to an essay by a certain Timothy Dost  [Surging Shifting Sands.....].  Dost points out something worth looking at re the LC-MS (and I include other conservative Lutheran synods like the ELS, of which my congregation is a member) about interpretation.  The insight, for me, is that Dost writes about "the issue of presuppositions, including both the Scriptures and Lutheran Confessions. . . of how fixed doctrinal statements and conclusions" are to be handled.

It seems to me that the marketers at LC-MS headquarters want to permanently fix the truths of Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions into a solid form and sell these tablets of stone. The faithful, it would be so desired,  would, read, mark and inwardly digest the truths so expounded and prominently display them in their churches and homes just as the Roman Catholics of my youth posted pictures of the BVM in their homes and social halls.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 03:24:39 PM by Dan Fienen »
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #229 on: January 23, 2013, 10:21:50 AM »
Update on the Lutheran Study Bible incompatibility issue with Kindle Paperwhite. I provided an explanation of my problems after the download, and a link/sample of other users' similar problems. The email I received back Monday said that he (I don't have the pastor's name handy) would get a Paperwhite and try the download when they reopened on Tuesday. I have not heard back since Monday, which leads me to surmise (since they have been really responsive up until now) that they must have encountered the same issue and are working on it.

BTW, I think this is important because the Kindle Paperwhite is the most usable electronic reader for the elderly due to its readability (the appearance, contrast, etc.) and its simplicity of use. Sure the Kindle Fire does much more, but it is more complicated for those who aren't interested in (or are intimidated by) technology. I take care of my mom's computer and cell phone, and am pretty sure many other folks her age aren't any more interested in keeping up with the latest technology than she is.
Kurt
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 11:13:01 AM by Kurt Weinelt »
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Jay Michael

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #230 on: January 23, 2013, 10:30:45 AM »
There are similar issues with TLSB on the Kindle Touch ... Hopefully they will be resolved as well.

mariemeyer

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #231 on: January 27, 2013, 04:08:35 PM »
Today in Bible Class the pastor indicated that I Cor. 12 was directed to the entire congregation.  Mention of "brothers" in chapter 12 were said to include sisters and brothers. 

When I came home I checked The Lutheran Study Bible. There on page 1901 it states that Paul's use of brother can be male or female, "However, Paul  also used the term specifically for men who led the congregations. see note, I Cor 12:1)"

On page 1966 the notes state that in chapters 12-14 "Paul primarily instructs congregational leaders, "the spiritual," who have adopted different practices and divided the congregation."  The "brothers" in 12: 1 are "the spiritual" leaders of the congregation.   The note on 12: 4-6 states that the varieties of gifts and service are embodied in ministers. Notes on  12:7  that "to each" is again a reference to  the "brothers" (men). The Spirit works through the "brothers" (men).

I admit to always having read I Cor. 12 and the following chapters are being directed to the entire congregation. Hence, I was included in "brothers."

Any thoughts on I Cor. 12???

Marie

Chuck Sampson

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #232 on: January 27, 2013, 07:15:54 PM »

The leadership of the ELS has predicted that we only have about twenty more years of existence ahead of us.  In these twenty years we need to find a church group that will be palatable to our survivors and which will be willing to take us in.


This sounds like a story line from the original Star Trek series . . .

Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #233 on: January 27, 2013, 07:36:18 PM »
Good one, Chuck.  I always liked that one.   Star Trek.  Very witty.   Thanks.
Norman Teigen

Dave Likeness

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #234 on: January 28, 2013, 11:21:34 AM »
Marie, when the Apostle Paul in his letters addresses
a congregation with the word brethren, the ESV
always puts in the footnotes that it refers to brothers
and sisters.  The footnote states that the Greek
word for brother when used in the plural refers to
siblings in a family in New Testament usage.

Wallenstein

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #235 on: January 28, 2013, 12:30:20 PM »

The congregation of which I am a member is a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod.  We are small and dependent on larger ecclesiastical institutions to validate our identity and existence.   We look to Missouri for guidance and purpose, even though we are not in fellowship.  The leadership of the ELS has predicted that we only have about twenty more years of existence ahead of us.  In these twenty years we need to find a church group that will be palatable to our survivors and which will be willing to take us in.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Why should the ELS wait twenty years until it is on life-support?  What does the ELS leadership plan to do before doomsday arrives?

mariemeyer

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #236 on: January 28, 2013, 12:42:18 PM »
Marie, when the Apostle Paul in his letters addresses
a congregation with the word brethren, the ESV
always puts in the footnotes that it refers to brothers
and sisters.  The footnote states that the Greek
word for brother when used in the plural refers to
siblings in a family in New Testament usage.

David: I am aware of the above. 

My question is in regard to study notes in The Lutheran Study Bible where on p. 1901 it states that Paul's use of brother can be male or female, "However, Paul  also used the term specifically for men who led the congregations." In then gives I Cor 12:1 as an example where Paul uses "brothers" for men only.

Thus the question, " On what basis do the The Lutheran Study Bible notes conclude that St. Paul's use of brothers in I Cor. 12: 1 refers only to male siblings?"  The study notes contradict the ESV footnote on 12:1 that says "or brothers or sisters. Which is it???

Also, study Notes on chapters 12-14 state that in these chapters "Paul primarily instructs congregational leaders, "the spiritual," who have adopted different practices and divided the congregation."  The note on 12: 4-6 states that the varieties of gifts and service are embodied in ministers. Notes on  12:7  that "to each" is again a reference to  the "brothers" (men). The Spirit works through the "brothers" (men).

To whom are chapters 12-14 addressed? The study notes bounce back and forth in determining which verses apply to the men who are spiritual leaders in the church and which to the entire body.   To whom does I Cor 12: 7 apply when it states "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."
Marie

Dave Likeness

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #237 on: January 28, 2013, 03:02:02 PM »
Marie, those notes in TLSB are contradicted by
Gregory Lockwood's Concordia Commentary on
1 Corinthians.   He stresses that ALL Christians
have these gifts to upbuild the Christian Church.

"Each of these gifts of grace (12:4) services (12:5
should be understood  as a comprehensive
expression for the triune God  giving to and
serving through the believer."   Page 450

LutherMan

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #238 on: January 28, 2013, 03:08:02 PM »
TLSB was compiled with the intended audience
as the laity of the LCMS.  The primary and foremost
concern was to have footnotes that emphasized
the doctrinal position of the LCMS.  Obviously, others
beside the target audience have purchased and
benefited from reading this study Bible.
I'd be curious to know how much usage TLSB gets in the WELS, ELS, CLC, LCMC, NALC and Lutheran bodies abroad in English speaking countries...

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #239 on: January 28, 2013, 03:25:28 PM »

A lot less happens when you have to show your exegetical work to support your interpretation.

It might be interesting to see the exegetical work that supports this "female interpretation" you have, uh, gleaned (from which field you do not say).
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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