Author Topic: The Lutheran Study Bible  (Read 21189 times)

LutherMan

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #210 on: January 21, 2013, 10:25:54 AM »
I know several older people who leave their TLSB's at church in the bible study room, not practical when you want it at home, but makes it easier for them...

Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #211 on: January 21, 2013, 11:33:19 AM »
I was given a copy of this study bible and I perused it for a while and then gave it away.  There is limited interest here because of the narrowness of the agenda.   There is an absence of dimension in the  scholarship here.  There are no female scholar essays here as there is in the ELCA edition.  The editor, a well known Lutheran Celebrity blogger who was once, I am told, seen on these pages,  pays honor to the women who served the editor and the writers but it is almost as though he was thanking them for making photocopies, serving cookies, and preparing coffee. 

This book and the ELCA book of the same title demonstrate interesting theological differences between the two Lutheran groups.  The two editions might make museum pieces which show differences between the ELCA and the LC-MS.   For those of us with broader perspectives there is something to be learned from both sides of the confessional chasm.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

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Dan Fienen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #212 on: January 21, 2013, 11:55:02 AM »
I was given a copy of this study bible and I perused it for a while and then gave it away.  There is limited interest here because of the narrowness of the agenda.   There is an absence of dimension in the  scholarship here.  There are no female scholar essays here as there is in the ELCA edition.  The editor, a well known Lutheran Celebrity blogger who was once, I am told, seen on these pages,  pays honor to the women who served the editor and the writers but it is almost as though he was thanking them for making photocopies, serving cookies, and preparing coffee. 

This book and the ELCA book of the same title demonstrate interesting theological differences between the two Lutheran groups.  The two editions might make museum pieces which show differences between the ELCA and the LC-MS.   For those of us with broader perspectives there is something to be learned from both sides of the confessional chasm.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

What is the purpose of such a study Bible as TLSB?   One purpose could be to lay out the range of scholarly opinion and interpretation,  or perhaps ifit is to be a Lutheran study Bible tha range of Lutheran opinion and interpretation.  This could be of use to scholars and is apparently what Mr.  Teigen was looking for.

I think that our intention in producing this study Bible was not so to produce a compendium of contemporary Biblical scholarship as it was to produce a Bible readily useable by laity to asist them in their personal and group Bible study.  So backgound material in the physical,  social and cultural contexts of the Biblical texts and an indication of how we, in the Missouri Synod understand the text.  I doubt that this was supposed to be a neutral, some say this some say that, take your pick, compendium of scholarly opinion, but as a guide for laity.

Dan
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Jeremy Loesch

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #213 on: January 21, 2013, 11:55:36 AM »
I learn something everyday!  There are only nine commandments in the ELS! 

The gender of the commentators and scholars has no bearing on the book.  Why are you not grousing about the absence of sheep commenting on Exodus 12?

Jeremy.
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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #214 on: January 21, 2013, 11:57:30 AM »
I purchased the Lutheran Study Bbible   for Kindle on my Samsung 7inch tablet.  Finding thd table of contnts was a challenge, but I found by using the goto feature that listed the TOC. 

You might try customer service at Amazon (or as a second option CPH,  but I'm guessing they let Amazon handle kindle questions).

In some ways the paper edition is easier to use, but the kindle is sure lighter to hold and schlep around.

Dan
The "go to" feature does not have the table of contents in the menu. The Bible loaded on our earlier Kindle version does have this function.

I contacted Concordia by email yesterday (and got a personal---not a computer-generated--- reply two minutes later!), and they were unaware of the issue until now. I guess we'll find out what's going on soon. The paper copy is a non-starter since the whole point of buying the Kindle Paperwhite was to eliminate her having to carry books around.

On my Kindle Fire, when using TLSB, I tap the "menu" icon at the bottom, and it goes to a menu of Cover, Table of Contents, Beginning, Location..., Sync to Furtherest Page, and Book Extras. Seems quite simple.
Don Kirchner

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #215 on: January 21, 2013, 12:05:10 PM »
I was given a copy of this study bible and I perused it for a while and then gave it away.  There is limited interest here because of the narrowness of the agenda.   There is an absence of dimension in the  scholarship here.  There are no female scholar essays here as there is in the ELCA edition.  The editor, a well known Lutheran Celebrity blogger who was once, I am told, seen on these pages,  pays honor to the women who served the editor and the writers but it is almost as though he was thanking them for making photocopies, serving cookies, and preparing coffee. 

This book and the ELCA book of the same title demonstrate interesting theological differences between the two Lutheran groups.  The two editions might make museum pieces which show differences between the ELCA and the LC-MS.   For those of us with broader perspectives there is something to be learned from both sides of the confessional chasm.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod

It is true that the range of interpretation is narrow, but as noted it was produced primarily with a conservative Lutheran audience in mind.  One should also note that there are numerous references to the Church Fathers in the notes.  This is something seldom if ever seen in study Bibles of an evangelical stripe, and a much broader inclusion than was found in the previous study Bible put out by CPH. 
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #216 on: January 21, 2013, 01:16:22 PM »
To Jeremy Loesch:  Hunh?

The LC-MS Study Bible, it seems, isn't so much about scholarship as it is about indoctrinating the faithful to the correct interpretation of the Scriptures and the Confessions.  Elsewhere on the ALB Forum, quite recently,  I found a link to an essay by a certain Timothy Dost  [Surging Shifting Sands.....].  Dost points out something worth looking at re the LC-MS (and I include other conservative Lutheran synods like the ELS, of which my congregation is a member) about interpretation.  The insight, for me, is that Dost writes about "the issue of presuppositions, including both the Scriptures and Lutheran Confessions. . . of how fixed doctrinal statements and conclusions" are to be handled.

It seems to me that the marketers at LC-MS headquarters want to permanently fix the truths of Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions into a solid form and sell these tablets of stone. The faithful, it would be so desired,  would, read, mark and inwardly digest the truths so expounded and prominently display them in their churches and homes just as the Roman Catholics of my youth posted pictures of the BVM in their homes and social halls.

Norman Teigen, Layman
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #217 on: January 21, 2013, 01:16:58 PM »
I learn something everyday!  There are only nine commandments in the ELS! 

The gender of the commentators and scholars has no bearing on the book.  Why are you not grousing about the absence of sheep commenting on Exodus 12?


That is true if one believes that the personal experiences of commentators and scholars has no bearing on how they read and interpret scriptures. I am certain that the differences people experience because of gender, race, religions, economic status, etc. make a difference in how they interpret scriptures. Such differences can often be illustrated by asking a mixed group of people about a biblical text, "What does this mean to you?" Answers will vary - often based on their own personal experiences.

Consider the contrast that has occurred with interpretations of the woman at the well. (I don't know what's in either Lutheran Study Bibles, so I'm not making a direct reference to them.) Often the woman has been portrayed as sexually immoral because she's had five husbands. A female interpretation that I recently read, suggested that she was a victim of the levirite law that was also part of the Samaritan's Torah - that is, she had been passed from one of her first husband's brothers to the next as they died, to try and raise up a son for their brother. This means, in this commentator's view, that she was considered a burden for all of those "husbands" – who know that should she bear a son, it wouldn't be theirs. That rather than being an immoral woman (something the text never states,) she was victimized by the Law and her first husband's brothers.


There's also an interpretation by more liberal scholars that take the five husbands symbolically to represent the five foreign nations that Assyria brought into the land of Samaria after conquering it (see 2 Kings 17:24). A few verses later we are also told that the people from these foreign nations brought their own gods into Samaria to worship them. Because of these foreign gods, the true husband, the LORD, was not really worshipped as he should be. The Samaritans claimed him as their "husband," but he really wasn't. With this symbolic interpretation, the sin is idolatry - and then logically leads to the conversation about proper worship.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 01:19:35 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #218 on: January 21, 2013, 01:20:40 PM »
Well, I assert the revolutionary idea that neither of these sides can be assumed to have a corner on the truth.  i come from the conservative side and have seen the blinders of this element.   An educated person needs, I think, to get beyond the agendas of the ludicrous left and the ridiculous right.  It is a task that will never be accomplished while we live in this life.
Norman Teigen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #219 on: January 21, 2013, 02:14:05 PM »
I learn something everyday!  There are only nine commandments in the ELS! 

The gender of the commentators and scholars has no bearing on the book.  Why are you not grousing about the absence of sheep commenting on Exodus 12?


That is true if one believes that the personal experiences of commentators and scholars has no bearing on how they read and interpret scriptures. I am certain that the differences people experience because of gender, race, religions, economic status, etc. make a difference in how they interpret scriptures. Such differences can often be illustrated by asking a mixed group of people about a biblical text, "What does this mean to you?" Answers will vary - often based on their own personal experiences.

Consider the contrast that has occurred with interpretations of the woman at the well. (I don't know what's in either Lutheran Study Bibles, so I'm not making a direct reference to them.) Often the woman has been portrayed as sexually immoral because she's had five husbands. A female interpretation that I recently read, suggested that she was a victim of the levirite law that was also part of the Samaritan's Torah - that is, she had been passed from one of her first husband's brothers to the next as they died, to try and raise up a son for their brother. This means, in this commentator's view, that she was considered a burden for all of those "husbands" – who know that should she bear a son, it wouldn't be theirs. That rather than being an immoral woman (something the text never states,) she was victimized by the Law and her first husband's brothers.


There's also an interpretation by more liberal scholars that take the five husbands symbolically to represent the five foreign nations that Assyria brought into the land of Samaria after conquering it (see 2 Kings 17:24). A few verses later we are also told that the people from these foreign nations brought their own gods into Samaria to worship them. Because of these foreign gods, the true husband, the LORD, was not really worshipped as he should be. The Samaritans claimed him as their "husband," but he really wasn't. With this symbolic interpretation, the sin is idolatry - and then logically leads to the conversation about proper worship.

The five husbands plainly refer to: pork, seven squared minus three, Hawaii, composting, and the planet formerly known as Pluto. 

A lot of mischief can happen when scholars try to read the Bible.

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Kurt Weinelt

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #220 on: January 21, 2013, 04:04:09 PM »
On my Kindle Fire, when using TLSB, I tap the "menu" icon at the bottom, and it goes to a menu of Cover, Table of Contents, Beginning, Location..., Sync to Furtherest Page, and Book Extras. Seems quite simple.
There is no menu for "Table of Contents" when you use menu or "Go To" on the Kindle Paperwhite we downloaded. It is missing in action, AWOL, etc.

Here are the comments of other users on Amazon with the same problem:
"The LSB worked ok on my previous Kindle. Recently got the new Paperwhite and unable to bring up a Table of contents on it. Any solutions?"
"I also can't find the table of Contents. Does anyone have a tip on how to find it? I would like to get started reading, but can't get to the book I want to read."
"Ditto for the Kindle Fire HD."
"I am having the same problem. Sure can't take this to Bible Study it will take me 3 days to find a book. Any updates out there?"
"We were disappointed that we couldn't navigate the Lutheran Study Bible in Paperwhite. Apparently this problem has existed for several months. Does anyone from Amazon or Concordia respond? We returned our download. If you can't navigate to specific places it renders this Bible useless."
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

Dan Fienen

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #221 on: January 21, 2013, 04:09:34 PM »
On my Kindle Fire, when using TLSB, I tap the "menu" icon at the bottom, and it goes to a menu of Cover, Table of Contents, Beginning, Location..., Sync to Furtherest Page, and Book Extras. Seems quite simple.
There is no menu for "Table of Contents" when you use menu or "Go To" on the Kindle Paperwhite we downloaded. It is missing in action, AWOL, etc.

Here are the comments of other users on Amazon with the same problem:
"The LSB worked ok on my previous Kindle. Recently got the new Paperwhite and unable to bring up a Table of contents on it. Any solutions?"
"I also can't find the table of Contents. Does anyone have a tip on how to find it? I would like to get started reading, but can't get to the book I want to read."
"Ditto for the Kindle Fire HD."
"I am having the same problem. Sure can't take this to Bible Study it will take me 3 days to find a book. Any updates out there?"
"We were disappointed that we couldn't navigate the Lutheran Study Bible in Paperwhite. Apparently this problem has existed for several months. Does alone from Amazon or Concordia respond? We returned our download. If you can't navigate to specific places it renders this Bible useless."

Apparently the problem is not so much in the download, but in the platform -the kindle Paperwhite.

Dan
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Donald_Kirchner

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #222 on: January 21, 2013, 04:15:19 PM »
On my Kindle Fire, when using TLSB, I tap the "menu" icon at the bottom, and it goes to a menu of Cover, Table of Contents, Beginning, Location..., Sync to Furtherest Page, and Book Extras. Seems quite simple.
There is no menu for "Table of Contents" when you use menu or "Go To" on the Kindle Paperwhite we downloaded. It is missing in action, AWOL, etc.

Here are the comments of other users on Amazon with the same problem:
"The LSB worked ok on my previous Kindle. Recently got the new Paperwhite and unable to bring up a Table of contents on it. Any solutions?"
"I also can't find the table of Contents. Does anyone have a tip on how to find it? I would like to get started reading, but can't get to the book I want to read."
"Ditto for the Kindle Fire HD."
"I am having the same problem. Sure can't take this to Bible Study it will take me 3 days to find a book. Any updates out there?"
"We were disappointed that we couldn't navigate the Lutheran Study Bible in Paperwhite. Apparently this problem has existed for several months. Does alone from Amazon or Concordia respond? We returned our download. If you can't navigate to specific places it renders this Bible useless."

Apparently the problem is not so much in the download, but in the platform -the kindle Paperwhite.

Dan

I gave my wife a Paperwhite for Christmas. Downloaded TLSB thereon, but I haven't used it. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out.
Don Kirchner

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Kurt Weinelt

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #223 on: January 21, 2013, 04:39:04 PM »
On my Kindle Fire, when using TLSB, I tap the "menu" icon at the bottom, and it goes to a menu of Cover, Table of Contents, Beginning, Location..., Sync to Furtherest Page, and Book Extras. Seems quite simple.
There is no menu for "Table of Contents" when you use menu or "Go To" on the Kindle Paperwhite we downloaded. It is missing in action, AWOL, etc.

Here are the comments of other users on Amazon with the same problem:
"The LSB worked ok on my previous Kindle. Recently got the new Paperwhite and unable to bring up a Table of contents on it. Any solutions?"
"I also can't find the table of Contents. Does anyone have a tip on how to find it? I would like to get started reading, but can't get to the book I want to read."
"Ditto for the Kindle Fire HD."
"I am having the same problem. Sure can't take this to Bible Study it will take me 3 days to find a book. Any updates out there?"
"We were disappointed that we couldn't navigate the Lutheran Study Bible in Paperwhite. Apparently this problem has existed for several months. Does alone from Amazon or Concordia respond? We returned our download. If you can't navigate to specific places it renders this Bible useless."

Apparently the problem is not so much in the download, but in the platform -the kindle Paperwhite.

Dan
That is my suspicion. I teach in a computer lab, so I am pretty good at isolating technical problems, though not very good at all at fixing them.

I received three emails from Concordia in the 12-hour period after I notified them of this issue, and I included in one of my replies the link and user comments in my post above. So far I am really impressed by the CPH response.
"Learning about history is an antidote to the hubris of the present, the idea that everything in OUR lives is the ultimate." David McCullough

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #224 on: January 21, 2013, 06:31:33 PM »
I learn something everyday!  There are only nine commandments in the ELS! 

The gender of the commentators and scholars has no bearing on the book.  Why are you not grousing about the absence of sheep commenting on Exodus 12?


That is true if one believes that the personal experiences of commentators and scholars has no bearing on how they read and interpret scriptures. I am certain that the differences people experience because of gender, race, religions, economic status, etc. make a difference in how they interpret scriptures. Such differences can often be illustrated by asking a mixed group of people about a biblical text, "What does this mean to you?" Answers will vary - often based on their own personal experiences.

Consider the contrast that has occurred with interpretations of the woman at the well. (I don't know what's in either Lutheran Study Bibles, so I'm not making a direct reference to them.) Often the woman has been portrayed as sexually immoral because she's had five husbands. A female interpretation that I recently read, suggested that she was a victim of the levirite law that was also part of the Samaritan's Torah - that is, she had been passed from one of her first husband's brothers to the next as they died, to try and raise up a son for their brother. This means, in this commentator's view, that she was considered a burden for all of those "husbands" – who know that should she bear a son, it wouldn't be theirs. That rather than being an immoral woman (something the text never states,) she was victimized by the Law and her first husband's brothers.


There's also an interpretation by more liberal scholars that take the five husbands symbolically to represent the five foreign nations that Assyria brought into the land of Samaria after conquering it (see 2 Kings 17:24). A few verses later we are also told that the people from these foreign nations brought their own gods into Samaria to worship them. Because of these foreign gods, the true husband, the LORD, was not really worshipped as he should be. The Samaritans claimed him as their "husband," but he really wasn't. With this symbolic interpretation, the sin is idolatry - and then logically leads to the conversation about proper worship.

The five husbands plainly refer to: pork, seven squared minus three, Hawaii, composting, and the planet formerly known as Pluto. 

A lot of mischief can happen when scholars try to read the Bible.


A lot less happens when you have to show your exegetical work to support your interpretation.

"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]