Author Topic: The Lutheran Study Bible  (Read 21174 times)

mariemeyer

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2009, 11:14:40 AM »
Marie:  "The Father is the head of Christ according to Christ's human nature..... The relationship does not make the Son inferior.  A husband and wife live in a relationship with different roles yet without implication of superiority or inferiority.  Chyrs:  'Had Paul meant to speak of rule and subjection... he would not have brought fofrward the instance of a wife, but rather of a slave and a master.'"

I am familiar with Chrysostom's 26th homily on I Cor. 11:2.  He states that in this text believers are to understand that the name "Son" means "that He is of the same essence and that He is of God."  As applied to the Trinity, Chrysostom said kephale must imply "perfect oneness and primal cause and source."

Back to the original question, "What meaning do the Lutheran Study Bible notes give kephale in I Cor. 11?"

Marie

Weedon

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2009, 11:26:53 AM »
That was the citation from The Lutheran Study Bible.  There's more, but I didn't have time to copy it all out.  Head:  That which is preeminent within a relationship.  The "head" is responsible for the actions of the body.  As a metaphor for the Church, Paul notes that the body has many parts with different roles (1 Cor. 12:12-26), the "head" of which is Christ.  So also here, the "head" is that which is preeminent, though not greater than the other parts, because the head is most prominent, visible, and necessary for the proper function of the rest of the body."  Then what I cited earlier.  p. 1962

There is also a fine summary titled "Men and Women in the Church" on p. 1972 from Gregory Lockwood's 1 Corinthians Commentary. 

mariemeyer

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2009, 12:28:53 PM »
That was the citation from The Lutheran Study Bible.  There's more, but I didn't have time to copy it all out.  Head:  That which is preeminent within a relationship.  The "head" is responsible for the actions of the body.  As a metaphor for the Church, Paul notes that the body has many parts with different roles (1 Cor. 12:12-26), the "head" of which is Christ.  So also here, the "head" is that which is preeminent, though not greater than the other parts, because the head is most prominent, visible, and necessary for the proper function of the rest of the body."  Then what I cited earlier.  p. 1962

There is also a fine summary titled "Men and Women in the Church" on p. 1972 from Gregory Lockwood's 1 Corinthians Commentary. 

What page of the Lockwood Commentrary is given?    I have to check my copy, but there is page where Lockwood states a woman is under the authority of her husband, her father or some other man in the house.  He is rather dogmatic about the claim that kephale means authority over and applies it to marriage and the relationship of man and woman in the church.   

What I find confusing is that the early church fathers focus on the organic unity of the head and the body rather than the head being in authority over the body.  Since they lived closer to the time of Paul, I wonder if authors of the Lutheran study Bible reviewed what men like Cyril of Alexandria and Athanasius wrote about kephale.

Also interesting is that your post suggests the new Study Bible claims the "head" is responsible for the actions of the body.  When applied to I Cor 11, "man(husband) is head of woman (wife)"  I am off the hook in accepting responsibilty for my actions.  Is Christ responsible for the actions of the Church?

Marie

James Gustafson

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2009, 01:20:28 PM »
...
Also interesting is that your post suggests the new Study Bible claims the "head" is responsible for the actions of the body.  When applied to I Cor 11, "man(husband) is head of woman (wife)"  I am off the hook in accepting responsibilty for my actions.  Is Christ responsible for the actions of the Church?

Marie

Ouch, zinger. 

If so, though, then I am led to suspect that some churches suffer from Tourette Syndrome and the head has no direct control over their spasms.  :P

Weedon

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2009, 02:12:54 PM »
Marie,

You really should order a copy and then you can read the other comments in context.  I just don't have the time to copy them all out.  But the matter of the role of women in the church is not ignored and some very good information is provided in the study notes. 

Mike Bennett

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2009, 02:19:19 PM »
I s'pose reaching nearly five full pages without topic creep is pretty good.  A record maybe.

Nevertheless, discussion lists of all kinds eventually remind me of the entry on Puddin'head Wilson's calendar:  "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Mike Bennett
“What peace can there be, so long as the many whoredoms and sorceries of your mother Jezebel continue?”  2 Kings 9:22

mariemeyer

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2009, 04:11:55 PM »
I s'pose reaching nearly five full pages without topic creep is pretty good.  A record maybe.

Nevertheless, discussion lists of all kinds eventually remind me of the entry on Puddin'head Wilson's calendar:  "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Mike Bennett


Meaning  ???

Marie

Edward Engelbrecht

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2009, 04:21:06 PM »
...
Also interesting is that your post suggests the new Study Bible claims the "head" is responsible for the actions of the body.  When applied to I Cor 11, "man(husband) is head of woman (wife)"  I am off the hook in accepting responsibilty for my actions.  Is Christ responsible for the actions of the Church?

Marie

Ouch, zinger. 

If so, though, then I am led to suspect that some churches suffer from Tourette Syndrome and the head has no direct control over their spasms.  :P

Actally, the cited text speaks of the head-body relationship as a "metaphor." Be sure to read things in context before abdicating personal responsibility!

Oddly, though, Christ does take responsibility for the actions of the Church while on the cross. This is a good thing.

grabau14

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2009, 04:42:51 PM »
Deaconess Meyer,  TLSB p. 1972 "Men and Women in the Church"  uses pages 516-18,524-25, 540 from Dr. Lockwood's commentary on I Corinthians.  Just buy the book!

vicarbob

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2009, 08:30:17 AM »
Had a conversation just yesterday with a good friend, a young ELCA pastor. He had received his copy of the CPH- Lutheran Study Bible. He was thrilled! He then went on to say that he is now prepared to return to AF the 10 copies of "our" Study Bible, still in its box. Why...one is a Lutheran Study Bible and the other isn't Lutheran or a study Bible. He then described how both offerings viewed John 3:16. The AF, said....What does this mean to you?  CPH offered commentary and referenced the Confessions.
I have at the ready and have used CPH previous offering, purchased it last year.....now I have to buy the new one! Perhaps CPH and the LC-MS would consider offering, at a reduced rate the new Study Bible to us in the ELCA and write-off the discount as "evangelism" in the mission field.
Just sayin',
A little broker, but more enriched
Bob
PS GOD bless Deaconess Meyer and the ministry to which she has been called. She is a voice which, MHO, the LC-MS needs to hear.

MSchimmel

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2009, 09:03:39 AM »
... Perhaps CPH and the LC-MS would consider offering, at a reduced rate the new Study Bible to us in the ELCA and write-off the discount as "evangelism" in the mission field.
Just sayin',...

Perhaps a trade-in policy on the A-F LSB ... Cash For Clunkers?   ;D

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2009, 09:14:56 AM »
VicarBob, glad to hear that your friend is pleased with TLSB.  My worship committee chairman forgot that he ordered one in the spring and just placed another order with our congregation, so he brought his copy that he received last week to me.  I've been very pleased with what I have seen and read.  Every page seems to have more and more good stuff on it than the previous page!  (I ordered a copy of my own and will give that copy to a member who is not quite able to afford a new study Bible at the moment.)

I'd like to address your PS for a moment if I may.  What you wrote was very fine and  very accurate.  But what wasn't written struck me.  She does have a voice that needs to be listened to.  But we also need to listen to the voice of Rev. Uttenreither and Rev. Weedon.  And perhaps we need to insist less on our voices being heard and focus more on our ears being opened to listen, not to our own voices, but to voice of God that comes to us in the reading of the Bible.  We need to hear, and accept, the Word of God.  I am not saying that we should not question what we hear, but we need to accept the Word and conform our lives to that Word.  Rather than making the Word fit our lives, which many Christians do, we need to make our lives fit the Word, regardless of whether I agree with what I read or hear.  

We, especially in the LCMS, need to hear the voices of our people.  But more than that, we need to hear the voice of the One who has spoken authoritatively, Jesus Christ.

Jeremy
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Scott6

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2009, 09:58:47 AM »
We, especially in the LCMS, need to hear the voices of our people.  But more than that, we need to hear the voice of the One who has spoken authoritatively, Jesus Christ.

I would venture to suggest that perhaps the confusion you highlight, Jeremy, is at the heart of many of the problems the ELCA is currently experiencing.

Jeremy Loesch

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2009, 10:56:08 AM »
Right on Scott.  We- humans, Christians, Lutherans- do not like what the authoritative voice of God has to say to us.  So we either ignore the authority or alter what the authority teaches until it is something more palatable to us.  Thus sayeth me, the chief offender.  But ignoring or re-imagining what the authority says does not lessen its authority.  Although some might think that it does.

It appears that some good things from Jefferson's School are rubbing off on you.   ;D  I didn't even bother to apply to UVa because I knew they wouldn't want me.  And I wasn't scientifically-minded so I didn't even bother with Tech either.  And I'm not snooty enough to hang out in Williamsburg with Bill and His Woman.  My wife is a Hokie and she says this:  UVa is hard to get into but easy to get out of.  Va. Tech is easier to get into but hard to get out of.

Jeremy 
A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

vicarbob

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Re: The Lutheran Study Bible
« Reply #89 on: September 15, 2009, 04:08:01 PM »
Jeremy, I would respectfully disagree with the second part of your response. Not because of what you didn't say, but rather because of what you did say. I submit and reject the implication that the ELCA's understanding of those called to the Ministry of Word and Sacrament is in error. We (ELCA-LC-MS, EOC's,RCC) do not agree on this understanding of ordained ministry. Heck, the LC-MS does not agree with the RCC,EOC's in the three-fold pattern of Ordained Ministry. You do agree however, that those so called must be male. You do not agree that called males need to be celibate, as the RCC, but not the EOC's require.
What we can agree, I believe brother, is that it is a DIVINE Call and GOD calls who He calls to be His ministers. The 'ordering" is of human design in the Confessions, is it not? (Not so in the RCC/EOC's as it is also based upon Apostolic understanding of those called to be priests).
The good deaconess may be heard as one calling out of the wildness and there is where deacons (and deaconesses) are called to minister.
I am glad that we agree on the Study Bible and PERHAPS when I get my free copy.............
Pax,
Bob