The Lutheran Study Bible

[Weedon]

I should just have driven across the danged river and picked one up!!!  Sign me - Impatient in Illinois.

[Jeremy Loesch]

There are too many rivers for me to cross to get to St. Louis these days. 

I am patiently biding my time while the congregation places its order.  Passed out 45 of the samplers to the congregation, wrote a summary in our newsletter, and people are making their orders.  Will at least have 14 members with the TLSB in their hands at some point.  Orders are due by Sept. 13, order should be placed a day or two after, will have a big 'something' when the Bibles come.  Can...not...wait...

At least I have my all-in-one-volume Hebrew OT and Greek NT.

And Matt, glad you and your father reached St. Louis safely.  And 'jealous' that you have your copy of TLSB already.  A good place to discover in St. Louis is Killabrew's in Jefferson Park.  It's on the way to CPH's main building.  It's off of Jefferson but I forget the cross street.  I used to be able to get there in my sleep.  A nice quiet establishment.  Check it out with your pop and then you can take your new compatriots there and dazzle them with your knowledge of the area.   

If you need on campus employment, the post office and bank is a great job.  Delivering the faculty and staff mail is a good gig.  You get to meet all the secretary's and many of them have nice, full candy dishes.  And they are sweet Christian women who take an interest in the students.  And the faculty that you meet are decent too.     A better, more lucrative job is off campus at Outback Steakhouse on Clayton Ave.  They've hired a few seminarians, probably because we show up on time, work hard, and are decent people.  I washed dishes, bused tables, was a waiter and then bartended for over a year before I went on vicarage.  (Lowest alcohol costs in the bi-state region BTW!)

As far as seminary goes, take as many courses with Gibbs, Saleska, Schmitt, Weise, Rosin, Bartelt as you can.  I know Rossow just became emeritus but if you see his name, take him too.  Same with Brighton. 

Got to run.  But we've already scheduled prayers for our seminarians this Sunday, for our college and university students, for all students as back-to-school is going on.  So we'll be praying for you.  Blessings on the beginning.

Jeremy

PS- And give thanks to God that for at least the next several years you'll have an opportunity to watch good baseball.  I live amid Philly fans and when they ask why I root for the Cardinals I tell them that if I'm going to watch baseball, I might as well watch good baseball.  They don't like that once they figure it out.   

[vicarbob]

Should be an early nite Matt, sightseeing in St Louis........PLEEZE ,
Seriously dude, glad you and your Dad arrived safely.....just wondering aloud if there are any plans afoot to jointly write of your father/son experiences in seminary. Should provide a most informative read. Are there any other father/son teams currently in "the process", has there ever been?
I was honored to receive a "complementary" advance of the CHP New Study Bible in genuine leather with ribbons from the Publisher (I think???)
I compared it to 'our" study Bible and must candidly admit........."ours" is FAR Superior. An easier "read" for those bound by conscience and have little need of scholarly "speak".
"Our" design is also more eye appealing, no sense in that old, tired, rose thingy which graces "your" edition.
Pax,
Bob

[Scott6]

An easier "read" for those bound by conscience and have little need of scholarly "speak".

Hmmm... I suppose it would appeal for those not wanting a scholarly, uh, study Bible.

[Matt Staneck]

Pr. Loesch,

Thank you very much for the words of advice and suggestions! And even more importantly, I am VERY grateful for the prayers.  I am going to need that more than anything else for sure. On day one all new students: M. Div, Alternate, SMP, EIIT, and DIT sat in a seminar by Dr. Hartung about how satan will come at us during pastoral formation and how prayer will be our strength.

As to you Vicar Bob: you got a complimentary copy from cph? That's funny bc I got a complimentary copy from AF and a sheet asking for my valued opinion.  And if you believe that, I have a bridge in brooklyn I can sell you.

I plan on continuing to write and I plan on getting dad too as well. We shall see, as they say, stay tuned.  Thanks for the words!

M. Staneck

[Scott6]

Seriously, though, folks.  For those who haven't had the chance to compare the options, let me encourage you to do so.  The two Bibles are vastly different from each other, filling different niches.

CPH's new study Bible on John: http://s7d1.scene7.com/s7ondemand/brochure/flash_brochure.jsp?company=CPH&sku=John&config=tlsb_epistles&zoomwidth=1000&zoomheight=800 (note that you can flip through the pages like a virtual book)

For more samples from CPH's new study Bible, check this out: http://www.cph.org/cphstore/pages/resources/tlsb/lookinside.asp

And for comparison purposes, here's an example from AF's new study Bible on Jonah: http://www.augsburgfortress.org/media/downloads/LSB_sample_pages.pdf

I would list other examples of biblical books from AF, but only the one from Jonah appears on the website along with an excerpt of an article (http://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/item.jsp?isbn=0806680598&clsid=195708&infoid=21731).

I'll let the books speak for themselves.

[vicarbob]

Tried Scott,but received the following when viewing the CPH offering....... "try again later sorry for the inconvience" .
NICE GOIN over there at CPH, at least at AF "our" pages are running and can be viewed.
Now about that bridge Matt...it seems that I have a few extra dollars in my pocket now...........................

Bob

[Scott6]

Tried Scott,but received the following when viewing the CPH offering....... "try again later sorry for the inconvience" .

Huh.  That's interesting.  When I do it in Opera, I get that message.  When I do it in IE or Google Chrome, it works fine.

In any case, I thought you said that you have a copy in front of you (even in leather).  So go and compare with that.

[vicarbob]

Scott, its WAY too pretty to open and what r u doin' at the Opera this time of nite?
Dude............I'm kiddin......
when does CPH ever give anything away, especially to an ELCA Vicar
pax
bob

[Scott6]

Scott, its WAY too pretty to open and what r u doin' at the Opera this time of nite?
Dude............I'm kiddin......
when does CPH ever give anything away, especially to an ELCA Vicar
pax
bob

You know, I just realized something (I'm slow, forgive me).  Since you prefer AF's offering anyway, why don't you drop that leather-bound free copy from CPH in the mail and send it on over to me.  I'll even pay for shipping. 

[vicarbob]

It's in the mail Scott....along with a check
pax
Bob
gee, maybe I can get a Ph.D

[Harvey_Mozolak]

Got my copy in the mail Saturday but not yet the ones my Bible Class ordered.  A couple of observations:

1. my most terrible complaint and no one can do anything about it and maybe the size demanded it... but the onion skin paper is way thin and no matter how you turn the pages there are always creasing and foldings threatened.

2. Cover prayers nice idea but wish the prayers covered a bit broader range and wider authorship.

3. Dating can be funny... John 1.1 did happen a bit before 3 BC, should have used the same notation at least as Gen 1.

4. I really don't like red letter bibles, they seem to be such an intrusion on the Word of God, like caps in emails eh?  And to note them so carefully in Revelation seems audacious.  Is there any explanation or justification for them them in the notes of this edition.

5. The theological icons are something quite new and in vogue but I wonder why the four were chosen and why not others, I know you can have too many but there are other notations that might have been helpful.

6. Someone I read did not like the pics... considering they have to be done in black and white, quite vibant and tasteful and traditional. 

7. All the extras are nice and on the one hand I like them and on the other:
Are some things too much?
Say the article on GOD BLESSED MARRIAGE, page 2120  (tho one of the indexes says that it is on page 2128 or something like that; just something to correct next ed.)
one of the paragraphs talks about 80% of marriages begun by people living together end in failure and those who refrain from premarital sex are 29 to 47 % more likely to enjoy sex after marriage... well, the article comes from 2005, is the 80% figure up or down in the last four years (and how long is this Bible to last?) and isn't it either right or wrong rather than the best chance according to stats.  And of course the second stat is laughable... how in the world would you come up with such specificity?  Are these enjoying Lutherans, or Christians or all heterosexuals?  These are at best human observations which may or may not impact seriously on theology.  Feelings of enjoyment sounds like my ELCA's way of ascertaining things. 

And that takes me to an even more important point about study bibles... 
When I was a kid I had a KJV... and it had a parallel passages down the middle and a concordance of words in the back and there we had it...  The Roman Catholic kid had a Bible with notes that told him what stuff meant according to their theology and we did not need that, though we were taught the catechism...  Are we that frightened that we have AF bibles that tell us all the liberal stuff we need to know about God's Word and CPH bibles that tell us all the conservative stuff?   Almost a war of the study Bibles?  Not that I like the AF product at all.   Harvey Mozolak

[Edward Engelbrecht]

Dear Harvey, thanks for your questions/comments. Please find my notes below.

Got my copy in the mail Saturday but not yet the ones my Bible Class ordered.  A couple of observations:

1. my most terrible complaint and no one can do anything about it and maybe the size demanded it... but the onion skin paper is way thin and no matter how you turn the pages there are always creasing and foldings threatened.
The paper decision for a Bible is the most challenging aspect of production. Decisions about the regular-sized edition were made in an effort to present a most affordable and portable book. The larger print edition uses a thicker paper; easy on the eyes but it will build your biceps.

2. Cover prayers nice idea but wish the prayers covered a bit broader range and wider authorship.
The prayers were chosen especially as prayers about God's Word and the growth of His kingdom. Much broader collections of prayers are available in Treasury of Daily Prayer and The Lord Will Answer: A Daily Prayer Catechism.

3. Dating can be funny... John 1.1 did happen a bit before 3 BC, should have used the same notation at least as Gen 1.
The center column dates, because they contain very limited information, had to focus on the most substantial, dateable topic on the page. In this case, the incarnation was chosen. "Eternity" was a viable alternative but not the primary topic of the page or the ESV heading, "The Word Became Flesh."

4. I really don't like red letter bibles, they seem to be such an intrusion on the Word of God, like caps in emails eh?  And to note them so carefully in Revelation seems audacious.  Is there any explanation or justification for them them in the notes of this edition.
Red letter editions are commonly sought by customers. I regard red lettering as just another form of annotation, of which there are dozens in a Study Bible.

5. The theological icons are something quite new and in vogue but I wonder why the four were chosen and why not others, I know you can have too many but there are other notations that might have been helpful.
In my early notes on the project there are about twenty content/theology icons sketched out. To use them all would make quite a mess on the pages. Focusing on the doctrine of justification, we narrowed the icons down to four with the following thoughts: (1) Trinity Icon. A most distinctively, Christian teaching that deserves special attention, especially since false teachers come knocking at the parishioners' doors. We need to know the Father, who justifies us through His Son and gives us His Spirit. (2) Word and Sacrament Icon. Important Lutheran emphasis that ties closes to the doctrine of justification. Lutheran views on the Sacraments are also commonly challenged by other Christian teachers and so deserved special attention in The Lutheran Study Bible. (3) Mission Icon. Stems directly from the doctrine of justification since Christ calls the Church to proclaim the Gospel to all nations. We wanted readers to see how constant this theme is in God's Word. (4) Law and Gospel Icon. God calls us to repentance and justification by grace through faith using these two chief teachings of Scripture. Essential emphasis in The Lutheran Study Bible. Aside from the regular feature of the Law and Gospel Icon, we tried to be sparing in use of icons. Too many on a page looks very strange. There were places where we cut/consolidated the number of icons just for this reason.

6. Someone I read did not like the pics... considering they have to be done in black and white, quite vibant and tasteful and traditional. 
Classic doesn't go out of style. Be sure to read about the artist on p. xiii.

7. All the extras are nice and on the one hand I like them and on the other:
Are some things too much?
Say the article on GOD BLESSED MARRIAGE, page 2120  (tho one of the indexes says that it is on page 2128 or something like that; just something to correct next ed.)
one of the paragraphs talks about 80% of marriages begun by people living together end in failure and those who refrain from premarital sex are 29 to 47 % more likely to enjoy sex after marriage... well, the article comes from 2005, is the 80% figure up or down in the last four years (and how long is this Bible to last?) and isn't it either right or wrong rather than the best chance according to stats.  And of course the second stat is laughable... how in the world would you come up with such specificity?  Are these enjoying Lutherans, or Christians or all heterosexuals?  These are at best human observations which may or may not impact seriously on theology.  Feelings of enjoyment sounds like my ELCA's way of ascertaining things.
For LCMS pastors and families, questions about marriage/family are constant since the teachings of Scripture and the Church on these topics are truly counter-cultural. Having the article readily available in the Study Bible makes it a convenient, common tool for pastors who need to discuss these issues with parishioners. The statistics have been fairly steady in recent decades. As the opening definition of marriage indicates, the article is about heterosexuals ("marriage" properly applies to them). It was not written with the current ELCA issues or interests in mind.

And that takes me to an even more important point about study bibles... 
When I was a kid I had a KJV... and it had a parallel passages down the middle and a concordance of words in the back and there we had it...  The Roman Catholic kid had a Bible with notes that told him what stuff meant according to their theology and we did not need that, though we were taught the catechism...  Are we that frightened that we have AF bibles that tell us all the liberal stuff we need to know about God's Word and CPH bibles that tell us all the conservative stuff?   Almost a war of the study Bibles?  Not that I like the AF product at all.   Harvey Mozolak
Lutherans have always used Bibles with notes (see "TLSB Study Notes," p. xxii). The tradition of glosses is at least medieval, though I would say it is much more ancient. See TLSB notes on Gn 14:14; 36:31. Cf. also the Jewish targumic tradition. Some modern Protestants advocate for Bibles without notes on the basis of a misunderstanding of sola scriptura, as though God does not want us to use faithful sermons, catechisms, hymn books, etc. Sola scripture properly describes the use of Scripture to judge doctrine, not that we must use the Bible alone---nothing else---for teaching purposes.
Plans for a new Study Bible began in 2001. CPH announced the development of The Lutheran Study Bible in 2004, which was a response to customer requests for a Study Bible using the ESV translation. We were not aware of A/F plans, which appeared later. Sources tell me that A/F originally thought of titling their work, "Lutheran Student Bible." I will not speculate further on why they chose a title so similar to the one CPH had announced years before.

In Christ,
Rev. Edward A. Engelbrecht, STM
Senior Editor for Professional and Academic Books
and Bible Resources

General Editor for The Lutheran Study Bible

[vicarbob]

Hmmmmm, so AF who published before CPH used a similar title...hmmm a Bible published by Lutherans calling itself a Lutheran Bible, how unique Hope ELW as a title wasn't a concern
Pax,
Bob
Trying to book a flight to STS.......we were asked to bring the LBW.....no recommendation as to "preferred" Bible was noted.

[revklak]

Hmmmmm, so AF who published before CPH used a similar title...hmmm a Bible published by Lutherans calling itself a Lutheran Bible, how unique Hope ELW as a title wasn't a concern
Pax,
Bob
Trying to book a flight to STS.......we were asked to bring the LBW.....no recommendation as to "preferred" Bible was noted.

I understand the Vulgate works quite nicely in that setting, and I'm sure they have a few extra around there.    If you need a copy, I'll bring mine.