Author Topic: Fallout, ELCA CWA  (Read 64013 times)

G.Edward

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #495 on: September 10, 2009, 10:13:20 PM »

Scripture doesn't speak for itself. It requires translators and interpreters.

Of course, there's the Reformation principle, "Scripture interprets Scripture."

I've never seen scripture interpret scripture without human participation in the task. All those cross references that are included in some bibles were created by someone.

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But this does not help us at all, given that you argue all sorts of things.  The Stoffregenian "I have argued" always comes back to "some have argued," and "spme" have nothing whatsoever to do with the Christian Faith.  The Stoffregenian "I have argued" also rarely returns to, "I teach and believe," since what you teach and what you say you believe are -- in the context of our arguments/discussions here -- often incongruent.
Nope. When I write, "I have argued," it's because I have made that argument at some other time, usually somewhere in this forum. It is a statement about what I believe. It is different from "Some have argued," which may not be my argument. Some have argued that "bound conscience" means "anything goes". I have argued against that interpretation.

There such is a dichotomy between most of your postings on this web site and those on crossmarks that I'm beginning to wonder if you are the same person.  One of you is clearly more insightful and inspired.  The other, rather tedious.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #496 on: September 11, 2009, 12:16:11 AM »
Any fool can string a few verses together to suggest a particular meaning, but I was taught that the faithful exegete wrestles with the full witness of the whole text even when it seems to contradict itself, and maybe then most especially.
Of course exegetes wrestle with the witness of the whole text of the particular author. Translators should not make Mark sound like Matthew; or have the same theological nuances as John. Those who want to harmonize "justification" in Paul and James are likely to get it wrong in both writings. Let Paul use the word the way he does, and let James use it the way he does.
"The church … had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Richard Johnson

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #497 on: September 11, 2009, 12:20:41 AM »

Nope. When I write, "I have argued," it's because I have made that argument at some other time, usually somewhere in this forum. It is a statement about what I believe. It is different from "Some have argued," which may not be my argument. Some have argued that "bound conscience" means "anything goes". I have argued against that interpretation.

Is there any argument in the realm of theology and Bible and Christianity in general that you have not already presented somewhere in this forum? If not, will there come a point when you've made them all, and perhaps we could have a break by having you just write "see above" in every post?
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Mel Harris

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #498 on: November 14, 2009, 07:50:36 PM »
The Long Island Sentinel has posted an article by Robert Benne that speaks to the topic of this thread.  (From what I have read elsewhere, this article may soon be posted other places as well.)  The article is entitled Unintended Effects – How the ELCA’s Aim for Unity Fractured the Church and is posted at:

http://longislandsentinelreligion.blogspot.com/2009/11/commentary-unintended-effects-how-elcas.html

Mel Harris

Charles_Austin

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #499 on: November 14, 2009, 11:11:33 PM »
I guess there is nothing wrong with repetitive appeals to and postings of the writings of Dr. Benne and Dr. Nestigen and even that non-Lutheran Girard guy, but if certain people here refer to what they have said before or their own study and experience in the church... well, then snippy things are said.

DCharlton

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #500 on: November 14, 2009, 11:17:28 PM »
I guess there is nothing wrong with repetitive appeals to and postings of the writings of Dr. Benne and Dr. Nestigen and even that non-Lutheran Girard guy, but if certain people here refer to what they have said before or their own study and experience in the church... well, then snippy things are said.

Do you mean Rene Girard or Robert Gagnon?
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G.Edward

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Re: Fallout, ELCA CWA
« Reply #501 on: February 11, 2010, 01:52:09 AM »
We are on a slippery slope as I have noted in other postings.  Now that we have stretched the big tent and our minds to accommodate homosexual relationships, it is only a matter of time before we begin to acknowledge and then accommodate other possible relationships.  In a recent issue National Geographic promotes polygamy.  In a recent episode Law & Order SVU promotes pedophilia.  These in and of themselves don't create the change, but they indicate a cultural readiness for the change.  Perhaps it will be some years from now when it finally comes, but the logic is already in place through HSG&T.