Closing LCMS Seminaries?

[pastormesser]

Bishop,

God willing, I will see you at the worship confab.  President Mueller has invited me to be part of the SID group.  Meanwhile, I'm really looking forward to attending this confab, which honestly looks a lot more interesting:

http://gottesblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/announcing-fourteenth-annual.html

Any chance you might join in that discussion as well?

I'll be there, Pr. Weedon.  Went last year and enjoyed the discussion very much - learned a bunch!  Can't wait to go again this year. 

[swbohler]

And yet, Dr. Benke, it was the guys who went through that "system" that failed us and led to the problems at the St. Louis seminary.  A number of these "system" men are not even Lutheran anymore, not even in name.  But they sure were/are brilliant -- just ask 'em, they'll tell you!  Maybe even in Latin or German.

[Weedon]

Sweet, Pr. Messer.  Maybe we can even sit down and have a real visit!  The greeting in passing at HT was hardly satisfying.

[pastormesser]

Sitting down and having a real visit would be splendid - looking forward to it!

[pr dtp]

So having been out of the discussion for a week, I would like to re-consider the idea of the seminaries being deployed to the universities.

Let's say we have 500 students, and turn the present seminaries into Universities or colleges as well - both specifically still tasked to be the primary focal point of all ersponsibility.

Take the staff - divide them among the colleges. Maybe make some reside at the universities for 3-5 years, have others willing to float to bring specific classes to the students.  Now on each campus you have 50-75 seminarians, who also can find work and assist in ministry both on campus and in guiding teams to local churches - and as they approach their graduation find part-time work caring for churches which cannot afford even a part time call.  Put two to three seminarians in each place, with a pastor/prof responsible for oversight of 3-4 groups.

Now you have struggling churches working with students who may enthusiastically attempt outreach, who are shepherded in that work.  PLus if they were living on campus, they would be able to do outreach among the students, developing potential new recruits and still maintaining the brotherhood of ministry.  The students would then also be able to participate with more local clergy, in areas where they might serve their careers.

Faculty senate meetings can be done via electronic means, and maybe one "main campus" retreat a year.  Admnistration can be handled centrally and with occaisonal visits.  People would see the effects of the deployed seminary, and instead of responding to mass marketing mailings and magazines with stories, develop a relationship with the local campuses.  

[Dave Benke]

Nice thinking, J and S - a seldom-mentioned resource is our college professorial group; and, I would hasten to add, the veteran parish pastors who could be adjuncts in so many areas of study.  Let me check into that October gathering, Pr. W.  Burnell and I have batted it around a few times, and the rest of the leaders seem interesting to me.  Also, will be great to be with you in January.  Dr. Dien Taylor from the AD will be involved, always a treat.

SW, I would count at least three levels of "leavers."  Those who left for the mess of pottage in mainline protestantism; those who have swum across the Bosporus or Tiber; and those who have wandered into evangelicalism.  A fourth would be those who have left and made their own micro-denominations because Missouri has gone lib.  Of course, were you in New Haven, Missouri, you would indicate immediately that the Seminexers, the Hyper-Euros and the HappyClappys are three wolfish divisions among us, all of which need to be expunged by force so that RealWalther, who oddly enough lives right there in New Haven, might be admitted to the pure fold. 

That being said, one of my best teachers was Bob Bertram, who was considered the major "Gospel reductionist."  Except that wasn't Bob - the guy could flat out teach and challenge in his teaching and was as confessional as a brick.  Our 200 level course was called Disputations, and all we did for that semester was divvy up and take sides - this time Eck, that time Luther, this time Zwingli, that time Melanchthon - the assumption was you knew all sides and could argue it every which way.  Actual education. 

His best buddy, Ted Wittrock (+), has a Crossing named after him in New York right outside Dien Taylor's Redeemer Lutheran Church.  We called him the Monsignor of the Bronx.  He called me King David. 

Dave Benke

[grabau14]

Granted this is an example from the ELCA, but this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the idea that you can have the structure of the liturgy but replacing it with "rap."  http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2009/08/frivolous-disorderly-and-indecorous.html

My favorite part is the pastor in chasuble attempting to be relavent by dancing to this nonsence.

[FrPeters]

Isn't that Pastor the Presiding Bishop Hanson?

[Darrell Wacker]

I'd like to think that this silly irreverence could never happen at an LCMS youth gathering, but given the direction they are going.  Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that's the case.

[James Thomas Sharp]

Granted this is an example from the ELCA, but this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the idea that you can have the structure of the liturgy but replacing it with "rap."  http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2009/08/frivolous-disorderly-and-indecorous.html

My favorite part is the pastor in chasuble attempting to be relavent by dancing to this nonsence.

I'm sorry you were at my church for DS 4 & 5 and not for the hip-hop setting of DS 2 that we have.

Hip-hop is the world's first universal language and culture.  And it don't stop, as you may know.

[Dave Benke]

Get me that hip-hop setting of DS 2 if you can.  Very useful in Brooklyn.  Very.

Dave Benke

[grabau14]

Good Bishop, I believe that my friend Fr. Sharp is joking.

James, And here I was giving you a hard time for using setting IV  .  But, your just trying to have a "middle of the road" LCMS parish  .  It was good seeing you over the last two weeks.

[Dave Benke]

Guess I'll have to do it myself.  Our new workers tour of ministries today did indeed feature two absolutely hopping VBS groups, between 150 and 200, with (gasp) dance and song as a major framework for the catechesis, which was Lutheran to the core. 

I'm not sure though that DS2 has that kind of beat in its musical bones.  We usually sing it a capella, and that is very nice. 

Dave Benke