Children's Sermons?

[Mel Harris]

The following is from a post in another thread.

In another discussion, the benefits/necessity of having children's sermons was discussed. Why are they singled out as a subgroup within the worshiping community? Is it not, for those who do children's sermons, because, as a group, their life-experiences are seen as sufficiently different from the adults -- whether that be amount of education, verbal skills, learning styles, maturity/responsibility, etc.? There are differences between a child's and a parent's perspectives on the world. Is it enough to create a new -ism? For many, it is enough to create a separate sermon. The gist of the message to the children and adults may be the same, but how it is communicated is different.

Rather than contributing to thread drift, I thought this might be worth starting a new thread.

I remember reading quite a few years ago, that perhaps we should reconsider doing children's sermons.  At the time I thought there was nothing to reconsider.  Either you are for including entertainment evangelism in the Sunday Service, or you are not.

When I was a seminary student, no one on the faculty approved of, or at least would admit to approving of, children's sermons.  They did, however, think that some of the students would be asked to do them in their internship congregation.  So, after several disclaimers, they had a young pastor from a nearby congregation come and talk to the Preaching Class about how to do a children's sermon.  I did not get the impression that we were in any way encouraged to do children's sermons, if we had any say in the matter.

Only once have I ever seen a "children's sermon" done for the children there.  The pastor leading the service invited children to join him by the creche and then spoke to them while the congregation stood and sang a hymn.  Every other time I have seen a "children's sermon" or "children's message" done it was clearly done to entertain the audience congregation, and often the behavior of the children who came up for it made it quite clear that they knew they were on display.

If there has been another thread where this was discussed, I would appreciate it if someone would give me the title of that thread.  If not, I am open to reading why someone thinks having a children's sermon in a Sunday Service is a good idea.

Mel Harris

[Jeremy Loesch]

Hi Mel, I'm not a huge fan of Children's Sermons either.  Instead we have Children's Time.  And we move this portion of the service to before the reading of the Lessons.  (I did this to keep the reading of the Lessons and the Sermon as a whole unit.)  In the Children's Time I have the kids sit in the front pew, so their backs are to the congregation and their faces are to the chancel, to the baptismal font, to the altar, to the chancel cross.  I bring them forward so they can see clearer the mosaics, the banners, and during this season, the Nativity scene that is being constructed week by week and the various Chrismons that are on the tree.  I try to engage their visual senses in this time.

One other function of this time is to get them ready for what they are about to hear, to give them clues as to what to listen for as the lessons are read.  And in this Children's Time I never fail to remind them where our attention is focused- on the cross and how all good things come from the death and resurrection of Jesus. 

I don't do Children's Sermons, but I do spend time with the children, and it is for them.  Do they ask silly questions?  Some times.  Do they say things that are hilarious?  Quite frequently.  Do they hear about God's eternal love for them in Jesus Christ?  All the time.

Jeremy

[1908]

I do children's sermons and I don't see that they are a bad thing at all.  Sometimes they can become entertainment but when I have done them they are actually a simple "sermon" that children can better understand.  I won't argue that everyone should have children's sermons or that every pastor has the ability to do them.  But they are not bad in and of themselves.

[peter_speckhard]

Not to derail the thread, but while you poor blighters are working I'm enjoying a snow day. It makes me feel like a kid, which is why I put it on this thread, mostly just to gloat. Carry on. I'll be sitting by the fire with a book if you need me.

[Weedon]

I confess we don't do them at all.  But I do try to remember that the sermon is for them as well (and so I often lean heavily on narrative).  We have a church full of little ones and I've never had a single parent ask for it.  And you should hear the little ones belt out the liturgy!

[racin_jason]

I'm not a big fan of childrens sermons...

Here's why:
1) A huge percentage of them require listeners to think abstractly. You get a prop and tell a story and conclude "Just as"..."so then".  Kids don't "do" abstractions. So the message ends up being geared for the parents.

2) Our theological catagories are often lost on children.  ie Sin as a condition vs. sin as soley doing the wrong thing.   

3) Overwhelmingly the message kids recieve after hearing Childrens messages year-upon-year is moralism. As Lutheran Christians, we are a whole lot more than simply that.

A few weeks ago I ran across a horrible/hilarious childrens message on hunger on textweek.com.   I can't remember the details except that the conclusion consisted of citing the statistic of how many die of hunger in a minute, and at the end the children were to be told how many died of hunger during the time of the Childrens message. A nice dose of guilt for the preschooler who goes back to her pew and eats animal crackers out of a plastic baggie for the rest of worship.

However, every church I've served has a tradition of doing Childrens Messages. One has to chose his battles, and shutting down the beloved childrens message is, for me,  not worth the fuss it would create. Having the children up front reminds an aging church every week that kids matter.  Unchurched visitors say they really like them, communicating that children do matter in the life of our congregation.

Lay people usually do the childrens message at our church, using resources screened and recomended by me.  But on the occasion I do one, I usually just tell a good Bible story in an engaging way, or teach a principle related to church life. I can live with that.   

[Richard Johnson]

I'm not a fan of children's sermons, but I do them. As someone said above, you have to choose your battles. We've fallen into the pattern now of whichever pastor isn't preaching does the children's sermon. That way I, as senior pastor, don't have to do them as often! (And my associate is better at them than I am anyway!)

[pastorg1@aol.com]

I didn't do children's sermon at first, simply because I saw it as too cutesy and knew I'd pander to the adoring adults listening to the message. Also, I remembered W.C. Field's advice to "never work with kids or dogs."

Now I have kids and dogs all over the place. (Liturgy creep...) Last week during Advent Compline we had 3 little toddlers clapping to #29 in the LBW, "Comfort, Comfort, Now My People," and two sleepy dogs.

During the liturgy, I have the children come up during the sermon hymn, and share with them a "sermon illustration" on the sermon theme while the adults sing. This keeps the moment focused on them and doesn't tempt me to pander to their parents. The children's time is short and sweet- like them.

Awww.

Peter (Wish I could spell saccarhiin, saccerin, saccharan,) Garrison

[edoughty]

Every church I've been part of, except this most recent congregation, has done children's sermons.  I concur with the critique that they are really hard to do -- especially considering the age/development range of the kids that come up for them -- without lapsing into a "be like Jesus" mode.  Usually I used the time to explain that particular sunday's Gospel in very basic terms, at approximately the level of Dora the Explorer.  For example, for Advent 3:

Today is all about being happy even when you're waiting for something really good.  Sometimes it's really hard to wait without pouting or getting crabby.  Do you ever have to wait for something?  [wait for rambling yeses and examples]  Good!  But today we're really happy, even though we're still waiting, because we're waiting for Jesus, and he always shows up, and we know that for sure.

That's about as much attention as they'd have (if even that much), anyway.

The current congregation has child care during the service for the little ones; then parents are expected to go get them at the Sharing of the Peace so the kids can participate in communion.  That also seems reasonable to me.

Erik

[Lutheran_Lay_Leader]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people object to something that can be very worthwhile if done well just because they've seen it done poorly. If there are problems with children's sermons being done poorly, the solution is not to get rid of children's sermons, he solution is to start doing them well.

And if it should come to pass that in addition to a good lesson being taught to the children some entertainment value might happen to creep in, I don't think God would have a problem with that. Things done during worship that are purely for their entertainment value are a problem, and should be avoided. But that doesn't mean that the Entertanment Enforcers need to swoop in and make sure that there is never any entertainment sneaking in along with God's Word.

I sometimes question the timing of a childrens' sermon. I think that if a childrens' sermon is to be something to explain one of the lessons, it should follow the lesson it is intended to explain.

Childrens' sermons can also be a good way to get dedicated lay people more involved in the liturgy ministry.

[edoughty]

addendum:  I've been at several churches where the adults note to me they particularly enjoy the children's sermon because it is short and sweet and to the point.

[Brian Stoffregen]

addendum:  I've been at several churches where the adults note to me they particularly enjoy the children's sermon because it is short and sweet and to the point.

That suggests to me that the problem is not children's sermons, but the adult sermon -- do away with that -- or at least transform it into a sermon that is short, sweet, and to the point for the children and adults.

[dkeener]

Like Jeremy I don't do children's sermons rather something we call "time with the children". No profound theological points are made during this time but I do think it is important that the children have a place in the service that is for them.  There is a part of me that thinks it is a bit rude to invite someone into the service and then ignor them. Small children cannot read and the vocabulary of the liturgy is not understandable for most. When the adults are standing they can't even see what is going on. So, if nothing else, the "time with the children" reminds them that they are not forgotten.

[edoughty]

addendum:  I've been at several churches where the adults note to me they particularly enjoy the children's sermon because it is short and sweet and to the point.

That suggests to me that the problem is not children's sermons, but the adult sermon -- do away with that -- or at least transform it into a sermon that is short, sweet, and to the point for the children and adults.

Yes-- well, there is that.  My particular impression is that that pastor's gifts are more weighted toward administration than preaching, but we all have different gifts, so. . . thank God for the children's sermon!

Erik

[Lutheran_Lay_Leader]

addendum:  I've been at several churches where the adults note to me they particularly enjoy the children's sermon because it is short and sweet and to the point.

That suggests to me that the problem is not children's sermons, but the adult sermon -- do away with that -- or at least transform it into a sermon that is short, sweet, and to the point for the children and adults.

In five decades of hearing Lutheran pastors and preachers, I could name several who always left their congregations wishing the sermon would go on longer, and others whose sermons seem far too long. The funny thing is, some of the pastors who tended to preach the shortest sermons seemed to take the longest, and some of the pastors who left the congregation wanting more actually had the longest sermons.