Author Topic: European American Lutheran Association?????  (Read 3127 times)

Steven Tibbetts

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
  • Big tents are for circuses.
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 02:47:29 AM »
Has STS ever made it into a press release?  If 40 people forming EALA can get a press release why not so many pastors in the Society?

The Society has made a couple of appearances in The Lutheran, but not any ELCA News Release.  But then we aren't an officially recognized group, either.  Nor have we, as a pan-Lutheran organization, ever sought such formal recognition from the ELCA or any of its program units.  EALA is, of course, being formed by an ELCA program unit, so naturally it got an ELCA press release.

spt+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
Pastor Zip's Blog

Darrell Wacker

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 07:52:23 AM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 44438
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 11:37:14 AM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.
That isn't what I see. I have a lot more people receiving Christ in our weekly communion services than people willing to serve on committees working for social justice or even Christian education or youth ministries. For many (if not most, ELCAers) their Christian action is primarily about attending services of Word and Sacrament.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 10:55:08 AM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Scott5

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 11:47:55 AM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

"Jesus, Justice, Jazz"

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering.html

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 44438
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2008, 11:49:02 AM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

"Jesus, Justice, Jazz"

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering.html
I note that "Jesus" comes first.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

peter_speckhard

  • ALPB Administrator
  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 19355
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2008, 12:00:14 PM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

"Jesus, Justice, Jazz"

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering.html
And I note that you considered it notable.
I note that "Jesus" comes first.

jmiller

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2008, 12:46:53 PM »
Months ago, I compared the ELCA to pig feeding at the trough of bankrupt racial politics (or words to that effect).  Of course I was chastised (and perhaps rightly so) for using unkind language for the image I tried to create.  But in all seriousness, is there no depth to which our church will not sink in its attempt to alienate moderate white folks.  I know many in my congregation would be furious that our precious benevolence dollars continue to be spent for such abject silliness.
"The European American Lutheran Association is a group of white Lutherans who seek to dismantle structures within the ELCA that give privilege to white people and disadvantage people of color," said Katherine B. Long, Redmond, Wash., EALA's newly elected president.
Is this person kidding? Is she unaware of the byzantine quota system alive and well in the ELCA which gives, in fact, more votes, and therefore more power to "people of color."
Of course she must be aware.  She is just employing the current liberal strategy of speaking her opinion, calling it the truth, and calling anyone who disagrees a racist.
I don't know how much more of this I can stand.

anonymous

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2008, 12:52:58 PM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.
That isn't what I see. I have a lot more people receiving Christ in our weekly communion services than people willing to serve on committees working for social justice or even Christian education or youth ministries. For man (if not most, ELCAers) their Christian action is primarily about attending services of Word and Sacrament.

Well, let's not have any more of that!   :)I am sure we can reverse that trend and have Christian action primarily about helping those less fortunate. We may have to involve President's Obama's Civil Guard if need be.  :)

Lutheran_Lay_Leader

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 12:57:03 PM »
Wouldn't it be better if we sought Christ-like humility on a daily basis, lived lives of charity and mercy, proclaiming Christ Risen and allowed the Spirit to transform us?  But then we couldn't beat ourselves up for being who we are.  :-\

Huh?

You describe a broad, general thing that should be an undercurrent that's part and parcel of our lives. This is about a specific set of details regarding a specific way in which that broad, general plan is carried out.

I mean, when one makes the decision to proclaim the risen Christ, the issue arises of who you should make that proclamation to. And that raises the issue of what language one should speak so that those you're proclaiming to can understand the words. The problem is that for too long the proclamation of Christ Risen made by Lutheran clergy was only made to Lutheran worshippers sitting in Lutheran pews because their ancestors came from Lutheran backgrounds in Northern Europe. The issue here is in allowing the spirit to transform us from people who proclaim Christ Risen to those who already know it into people who proclaim Christ Risen who need to hear about that, possibly for the first time in their lives.

I'm not in agreement with the method chosen for that project, but I certainly can't object to the goal of reaching out to spread our understanding of the Good News to more people.

Brian Hughes

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2008, 12:58:52 PM »
That's because there are too many White folk in the ELCA.

In Christ, Steven+
(As a Scandinavian-Saxon-Celt, I'm no "Anglo")


  Give it time .. there won't be that many folk in the ELCA of any ethnicity.

In Christ, Brian
(As a French Canadian (part Matis Indian), Scot-Irish (Ulster Scot) hybrid, I'm completely confused where I'd fit.)


jmiller

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2008, 01:39:43 PM »
Of course, maybe it is a coincidence (but I doubt it) that of the two pastors who are officers of the EALA, one is retired (with no congregation to worry about) and the other is the shepherd of a congregation where the worship attendance has plummeted 32% in the last 8 years.

pterandon

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2008, 08:33:01 PM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

"Jesus, Justice, Jazz"

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering.html

So there is sarcasm about going to New Orleans to paint schools-- this is one of the signs of a dead denom to you all?  Yall ain't against "justice" even when it involves direct private charity are yall?

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering_serviceFAQs.html

TravisW

  • ALPB Forum Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2008, 12:33:42 AM »
As a Norwegian/Swedish American, I am offended by the implication of being "white".  I am, in fact, peach-colored. 

On a more serious note, this strikes me as being just as lame as Presiding Bishop Hanson bemoaning the fact that the ELCA has too many light-skinned people.  Believe it or not, but a "person of non-color" can actually preach the Gospel without enslaving or taking the land of those "people of non-non-color".  Also, what structures exist in the ELCA that keep the aforementioned "people of color" from having a voice?  Has this been defined?  If it is undefined, does it really merit an organization based upon the premise? 

1908

  • Guest
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2008, 10:21:13 AM »
Has STS ever made it into a press release?  If 40 people forming EALA can get a press release why not so many pastors in the Society?

The Society has made a couple of appearances in The Lutheran, but not any ELCA News Release.  But then we aren't an officially recognized group, either.  Nor have we, as a pan-Lutheran organization, ever sought such formal recognition from the ELCA or any of its program units.  EALA is, of course, being formed by an ELCA program unit, so naturally it got an ELCA press release.

spt+

I see your point.  Thanks! :)

Brian Stoffregen

  • ALPB Contribution Leader
  • *****
  • Posts: 44438
  • ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν
    • View Profile
Re: European American Lutheran Association?????
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2008, 10:57:44 AM »
It seems to me there are too many folks in the ELCA concerned about social justice (defined by what?) and not enough concerned about Word and Sacrament.  It seems more of a 5 million member political action committee than a church.  How sad.

"Jesus, Justice, Jazz"

http://archive.elca.org/youth/gathering.html
And I note that you considered it notable.
I note that "Jesus" comes first.
Not notable, but a statement of fact -- and a significant fact, in my opinion. Haven't you been one who has pushed sanctification? Isn't that what happens after Jesus? How is striving for justice not making use of the third use of the law?
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]