Politics as cult

[jrubyaz]

Thank you. I have done the same with all Presidents of both parties.

Jeff Ruby

Those of you who speak with such disdain about Senator Obama: if he is elected president of the United States, will you regularly pray for him in your liturgies? Will you speak of him with the respect that seems (at least to me) to be required by the 4th commandment? Just asking.

As disappointed as I will be if Senator Obama is elected to be the nest president I will not be like those who have threatened to leave the country (and are still here) over past elections and I also will not have goofy slogans like "Barack Obama: NOT My President!"  Just because I did not vote for him does not mean he is not my president.  I will pray for a President Obama the way I have prayed for President Bush, no doubt.

M. Staneck

[jrubyaz]

Lol. The Socialist candidate. I love that.   

I guess this socialist candidate can succeed the current socialist President whose Treasury Secretary proposed billions in bailouts and nationalized our banks.

Maybe Sen Obama is secretly a Republican? 

Jeff Ruby 

As for the issue at hand with Senator Obama, it is perfectly consistent for many Americans and indeed many Christian Americans to say they are opposed to gay marriage, but understand that under civil law gays should be accorded civil rights, protection under hate crimes acts, and property and visitation rights.

Definitions of marriage are issues covered in the Bill of Rights under the 9th and 10th amendments. If Obama plans any action pro or con on the issue of gay marriage, then he doesn't understand our Federal system or respect the issue of states rights.

But then, there are so many reasons to choose anyone but the Socialist candidate that condemning Obama for his position on one rather petty issue (in the Federal, Presidential scheme of things) is rather pointless. Compared to his bad tax ideas, his redistribution of wealth ideas, and his total lack of experience, his position on gay marriage is irrelevant and insignificant.

[anonymous]

Those of you who speak with such disdain about Senator Obama: if he is elected president of the United States, will you regularly pray for him in your liturgies? Will you speak of him with the respect that seems (at least to me) to be required by the 4th commandment? Just asking.

Just asking, huh? I don't think you can ask that questiion without implying that they won't. Otherwise why ask. Just asking.

[jrubyaz]

Ah, yes, I have fallen "prey" to those darned liberals.

Glen,

Thanks for that. Need a broader brush to paint with? 

Gee, I am glad to know I have no mind, no thoughts of my own, no bachelors or master's degree, I don't read any periodicals (like Gov Palin) and never read any books.

I am only fluent in English, and  I am simply an empy vessel that is filled up with MSNBC  which I  stare at 15 hours a day because as a socialist leftist I have no job and am on welfare.

Give me a break. If there are any talking points here, I am not the one spouting them.  Now, quick , Olbermann is on ! 

(By the way, check the  vote count tomorrow night on how many Republicans who actually are thoughtful, intelligent conservatives  and are not simply social conservatives do vote for Sen Obama...I am proud to stand with Christopher Buckley, Gen Powell, and Peggy Noonan. )

Jeff Ruby

So? Pastor Tibbets is my friend, he is a great man and a great pastor. He signs his name and is responsible for his posts, as do I. You don't.

As for the issue at hand with Senator Obama, it is perfectly consistent for many Americans and indeed many Christian Americans to say they are opposed to gay marriage, but understand that under civil law gays should be accorded civil rights, protection under hate crimes acts, and property and visitation rights.

If that makes me the far left liberal you and Glen  have consistently painted me out to be ,  simply because I seek to be compassionate to others and believe in civil rights,  than so be it. My wife, family, and friends are all amused that only on ALPB could I be seen as a  liberal.

The political views you've espoused of late have painted you more than I could have ever done, Jeff. Besides, I've been more focused on the leftist proclivities of Candidate Obama. You, unfortunately, merely seemed to have fallen prey to the talking points & rhetoric coming from Candidate Obama's camp. If you are seen as a "liberal" here, I'd wager it's because you've been talking like one in the context of this current campaign, something that's brought into even sharper, more ironic relief by your repeated protestations of having been "a lifelong Republican" until so very recently. Maybe you aren't a liberal, but you certainly have hitched your wagon to an über-liberal in this election...

-ghp

[grabau14]

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-1.html

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-2.html

Fascinating stuff

[ghp]

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-1.html

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-2.html

Fascinating stuff

Most fascinating, indeed. Thank you for the on-thread-topic post, Fr. Uttenreither! Now, prepare to be told that you've just linked to fringe elements, that Candidate Obama is as non-threatening as a little lamb, and that no person could ever believe in the messianic hype...

-ghp

[ghp]

Ah, yes, I have fallen "prey" to those darned liberals.

Glen,

Thanks for that. Need a broader brush to paint with? 

Gee, I am glad to know I have no mind, no thoughts of my own, no bachelors or master's degree, I don't read any periodicals (like Gov Palin) and never read any books.

I am only fluent in English, and  I am simply an empy vessel that is filled up with MSNBC  which I  stare at 15 hours a day because as a socialist leftist I have no job and am on welfare.

Give me a break. If there are any talking points here, I am not the one spouting them.  Now, quick , Olbermann is on ! 

(By the way, check the  vote count tomorrow night on how many Republicans who actually have some intelligence and are not simply social conservatives do vote for Sen Obama...I am proud to stand with Christopher Buckley, Gen Powell, and Peggy Noonan. )

Goodness, now who needs to chill, Jeff? I just called it like I saw it. I cast no aspersions on how you formed your opinion -- I think you formed it honestly and forthrightly. You're intelligent & well-read -- I've never said otherwise. I just think you're misguided in how you've interpreted that which you have read -- i.e., the political opinions that you have formed are mistaken. What you've been saying/arguing tracks with the talking points quite closely -- this is what I observed, not that you were an "empty vessel" filled by MSNBC. There's no need for you to engage in such hyperbole in your response.

Buckley's a turncoat, Powell's an independent, and Noonan's worried about her social calendar (I daresay that Reagan wouldn't be pleased with her, or with Ron, Jr. either...).

-ghp

[Richard Johnson]

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-1.html

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-2.html

Fascinating stuff

I find this fascinatingly frightening.

But probably for different reasons than you. 

[Richard Johnson]

Those of you who speak with such disdain about Senator Obama: if he is elected president of the United States, will you regularly pray for him in your liturgies? Will you speak of him with the respect that seems (at least to me) to be required by the 4th commandment? Just asking.

Just asking, huh? I don't think you can ask that questiion without implying that they won't. Otherwise why ask. Just asking.

Oh, you're right. But you notice none of them have responded, so what am I to think?

[ghp]

Those of you who speak with such disdain about Senator Obama: if he is elected president of the United States, will you regularly pray for him in your liturgies? Will you speak of him with the respect that seems (at least to me) to be required by the 4th commandment? Just asking.

Just asking, huh? I don't think you can ask that questiion without implying that they won't. Otherwise why ask. Just asking.

Oh, you're right. But you notice none of them have responded, so what am I to think?

It wasn't a rhetorical question? Really?

Oh. Well, then...  Of course I will pray for the President, no matter who he is. Just as I currently pray for God to bless us with good government, and government officials with good judgment, etc.

-ghp

[Lutheran_Lay_Leader]

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-1.html

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/11/barack-obama-the-messiah---part-2.html

Fascinating stuff

Yes, it is fascinating how a few people will listen to the hoopla and hyperbole, and treat it as something more than mere hoopla and hyperbole. And if a handful of those people who fall for the hoopla and hyperbole know enough HTML to create a website, then even more people will be tricked into thinking that the hoopla and hyperbole is something significant.


I especially liked the picture of the spray-paint graffito that parodied the similar 1960's graffito that proclaimed that Clapton was God. It seems all it takes is one fool with a can of spray paint to create a movement.

[Now, prepare to be told that you've just linked to fringe elements, that Candidate Obama is as non-threatening as a little lamb, and that no person could ever believe in the messianic hype...

That should be "that no sane person could ever believe in the messianic hype..." and that no thoughtful person should take the rantings of the loonies seriously.

[jrubyaz]

Sure, I will engage in hyperbole  if only to prove a point.

It seems very fascinating that we can't even argue anymore...i.e. point by point, with substance, without someone saying you are using "talking points" or parroting "Fox/ MSNBC".

I supposed years ago people blamed newspapers or editors, but I would prefer to be judged by the merits of an argument, such as the good back and forth Peter and I had about hunger, or the discussion of SCOTUS that many had on this forum, rather than be accused of being part of the vast liberal media conspiracy. 

There is also something going on that is quite interesting , and that is that the moderates or so called liberals on this forum are not saying that conservatives are mindless automons of Fox or Rush Limbaugh. However,  MSNBC and Keillor and others have been lambasted from the right.

I think that the vast majority, probably 70- 80% of Americans, give a lot of thought to their positions. The remaining  percentage are  listening to media of either fringe and form their opinions around those personalities.

One thing is sure, I am guessing that Hannity, Limabaugh, O'Reilly  and their kind will win either way...if Sen Obama is elected, they have four years of hating, if Sen McCain gets in they will be happy.


Jeff Ruby       

Ah, yes, I have fallen "prey" to those darned liberals.

Glen,

Thanks for that. Need a broader brush to paint with? 

Gee, I am glad to know I have no mind, no thoughts of my own, no bachelors or master's degree, I don't read any periodicals (like Gov Palin) and never read any books.

I am only fluent in English, and  I am simply an empy vessel that is filled up with MSNBC  which I  stare at 15 hours a day because as a socialist leftist I have no job and am on welfare.

Give me a break. If there are any talking points here, I am not the one spouting them.  Now, quick , Olbermann is on ! 

(By the way, check the  vote count tomorrow night on how many Republicans who actually have some intelligence and are not simply social conservatives do vote for Sen Obama...I am proud to stand with Christopher Buckley, Gen Powell, and Peggy Noonan. )

Goodness, now who needs to chill, Jeff? I just called it like I saw it. I cast no aspersions on how you formed your opinion -- I think you formed it honestly and forthrightly. You're intelligent & well-read -- I've never said otherwise. I just think you're misguided in how you've interpreted that which you have read -- i.e., the political opinions that you have formed are mistaken. What you've been saying/arguing tracks with the talking points quite closely -- this is what I observed, not that you were an "empty vessel" filled by MSNBC. There's no need for you to engage in such hyperbole in your response.

Buckley's a turncoat, Powell's an independent, and Noonan's worried about her social calendar (I daresay that Reagan wouldn't be pleased with her, or with Ron, Jr. either...).

-ghp

[anonymous]

One thing is sure, I am guessing that Hannity, Limabaugh, O'Reilly  and their kind will win either way...if Sen Obama is elected, they have four years of hating, if Sen McCain gets in they will be happy.


Jeff Ruby       

Oh, come on, Jeff. I said you hit on all the Dem talking points. And we have also been arguing points I thought. But, really, stand back and look at this. You sound like you think you are a martyr or something. Relax.

And why did I quote the above? Do you really think Foxnews has a corner on "hate"? Please. So anyway, you said, "One thing is sure," and I say that is questionable.

What do you mean by "their kind"?

[Erme Wolf]

Looking forward to the end of this election, and anticipating the beginning of the 2012 campaign -- that's Wednesday afternoon.

Or to the discussion on candidates for President of the LCMS in 2010.   (Not!  )

[ghp]

Sure, I will engage in hyperbole  if only to prove a point.

It seems very fascinating that we can't even argue anymore...i.e. point by point, with substance, without someone saying you are using "talking points" or parroting "Fox/ MSNBC".

I supposed years ago people blamed newspapers or editors, but I would prefer to be judged by the merits of an argument, such as the good back and forth Peter and I had about hunger, or the discussion of SCOTUS that many had on this forum, rather than be accused of being part of the vast liberal media conspiracy. 

There is also something going on that is quite interesting , and that is that the moderates or so called liberals on this forum are not saying that conservatives are mindless automons of Fox or Rush Limbaugh. However,  MSNBC and Keillor and others have been lambasted from the right.

I think that the vast majority, probably 70- 80% of Americans, give a lot of thought to their positions. The remaining  percentage are  listening to media of either fringe and form their opinions around those personalities.

One thing is sure, I am guessing that Hannity, Limabaugh, O'Reilly  and their kind will win either way...if Sen Obama is elected, they have four years of hating, if Sen McCain gets in they will be happy.

Let's be clear about one thing, Jeff:  You were the first one to use the "talking points" brush -- http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=1294.msg71800#msg71800 -- when you used it on me. That you now decry it so bitterly is ironic at best. In that same linked-to post, you also likened me to O'Reilly and/or Hannity in spouting FOX talking points, so your contention above (wherein you state that such has not been done by the "moderates or so called liberals on this forum" is not true.

And, as for your final sentence, why are you being so one-sided? All the pundits will still be in business no matter who wins. To paint with an overly-broad brush, if McCain wins, MSNBC/CNN get to "hate", while if Obama wins FOX gets to "hate". But in reality, the pundits will bloviate & spew forth no matter who is in the Oval Office.

-ghp