Poll

Is The Papacy Still The Antichrist?

Yes, the Papacy is the Antichrist as the Lutheran Confessions say
11 (33.3%)
No, the Papacy was the Antichrist but Vatican II has changed things
4 (12.1%)
Don't know or care; not important to my ministry
5 (15.2%)
No, the Papacy has never been the Antichrist
13 (39.4%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?  (Read 13429 times)

Scott5

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2008, 11:21:32 PM »
Oh, and if becomes "clear," then you've read them wrong.  Oddly enough, what you're after is vague clarity where pesky things like the laws of the excluded middle and non-contradiction become a bit oogly.  Clear?

Oh.  Sure.  "Oogly."  Got it.

Tom Pearson

Glad to see you're up with the latest techinical terminology.  ;)   8)

Weedon

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2008, 09:45:47 AM »
Mike,

Yet to identify the papacy as "the" antichrist is not to identify a "single" antichrist, but a succession of them, no?  So doesn't that still land you with John's "many antichrists"?

Keith Falk

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2008, 08:02:53 PM »
Oh, and if becomes "clear," then you've read them wrong.  Oddly enough, what you're after is vague clarity where pesky things like the laws of the excluded middle and non-contradiction become a bit oogly.  Clear?

Oh.  Sure.  "Oogly."  Got it.

Tom Pearson

Clearly Ph.D studies are not as difficult as I had originally thought if "oogly" passes muster with you two   ;D
Rev. Keith Falk, STS

Jeff-MN

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2008, 01:10:57 PM »
what happened to the idea of sola scriptura?

don't read in Holy Scripture anywhere that explicitly states "The papacy is the Anti-Christ".

Michael_Rothaar

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2008, 02:28:41 PM »
what happened to the idea of sola scriptura?

don't read in Holy Scripture anywhere that explicitly states "The papacy is the Anti-Christ".

In an earlier post I referenced I John 2:22:
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

The "anti-Christ" label during the Reformation was polemic and internal, and did not assert that opponents' monotheism was something other than trinitarian. Even though the Turkish empire was invading Western Europe at the time, it didn't seem to occur to anyone to find out whether there were theological assertions at the root of the intentions for conquest. 
Mike Rothaar
Retired from roster of active ELCA pastors 01 Jul 2012.
Mind and Spirit still working.

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2012, 11:36:59 AM »
Perhaps it is time to revive this poll.

In 2008, twelve brave souls were willing to confess the Papacy as still being the very Antichrist.

I can reset the poll if anyone thinks our Lutheran confessional beliefs have changed.

Mike

George Erdner

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2012, 02:23:02 PM »
Such issues are not best resolved by counting noses.

Mike Gehlhausen

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2012, 02:56:38 PM »
Such issues are not best resolved by counting noses.

Agreed.

However, they work well to counter implications such as the following that such a view has become incredibly rare.

I remember reading comments where at least one person still believes the pope (or at least the office of pope) is the anti-Christ.

i also note that two more members have joined with the original twelve which confess this.

Mike

George Erdner

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2012, 04:51:57 PM »
I could vote that I thought that Leo X was an anti-christ. I also think he held that role before being seated in the Pope's chair.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2012, 05:23:39 PM »
However, they work well to counter implications such as the following that such a view has become incredibly rare.

I remember reading comments where at least one person still believes the pope (or at least the office of pope) is the anti-Christ.


"At least one person" means one or more. Is that statement wrong? Since I couldn't remember all the details of the discussion (or this poll) I wasn't going to pull some number out of my head which would likely be wrong.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 10:24:16 PM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

vicarbob

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2012, 07:55:00 PM »
I greatly appreciate the comments of at least two posters who understand that Islam is The Anti-Christ, and Mohammad certainly was its prophet. The invading "Turks" were most certainly about land grab, but were more for "conversion" by the sword. In a secular world so concerned about PC for a Church not to identify the anti-Christ alive and well in the world is not preaching the Gospel of Christ alone.
i minister in a community in which the Muslim population is on the rise, a brand new mosque is being built down the street from us......our building is for sale. At least one prospective buyer was from another mosque who expressed interest in purchasing the church building. He had said that it was not their intention to convert the church into a mosque, but rather to change it into a "cultural center".
It has taken several years of daily greeting by me to our Moslem neighbors to finally receive a heartfelt greeting in return. Offering each other "God's Peace" is a regular exchange. But one incident made me mindful of our differences. A teenager was found attempting to break the glass window of our outside bulletin board. Stopped from further damage by one of our Christian neighbors he asked the youth why he was doing it. The young man pointed to the Lord's Prayer, in Arabic in the shape of a Cross which we have posted. "We" can't allow this to go on and be seen by our people when they pass bye each day".
So no, the current Pope is no anti-Christ, those who deny Jesus as Lord and Savior..............
pax
Bob+

Eileen Smith

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2012, 08:04:07 PM »
Has anyone on this site had the opportunity to visit Italy and see, in person, Luca Signorelli's "The Antichrist" or, perhaps, even a photo of it?  It is a haunting painting of a figure with a likeness to many of the paintings of Christ, but there is a figure behind him, whispering in his ear and this figure's arm is extended through the alb of the man.  This painting, to me, illustrates evil - as the Antichrist is.  Can anyone really believe this of the Pope.  It saddens me to even think that in this day and age one would have such views. 

Tim Schenks

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2012, 04:09:01 AM »
It saddens me to even think that in this day and age one would have such views.

Why wouldn't one still have such views?

Eileen Smith

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2012, 08:33:48 AM »
One definition of the Antichrist is:  one who denies or opposes Christ; specifically : a great antagonist expected to fill the world with wickedness but to be conquered forever by Christ at his second coming.  I don't think the Pope denies or opposes Christ in any way. He leads a church that doesn't conform to what we believe as Lutherans - but I cannot, in my lifetime, remember a Pope who denied Christ.  The Pope and priests of the church preach of the Incarnate love of Christ - His death, His resurrection, His ascension, His coming again. 

As well, when I hear the word Antichrist, I always go back to the Signorelli painting. Since I first saw it, I have always thought it as such a powerful statement of all that is evil.  In its simplicity, it makes a profound statement. We see one who not simply opposes or denies Christ, but is evil and manipulates those who are weak away from Christ.




John_Hannah

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Re: Is The Papacy Still The Very Antichrist?
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2012, 09:05:40 AM »
I glanced at the poll and noticed that the math does not add up. 52 votes have been cast.

Demons in the program?  A sign from God?


Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS