Author Topic: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro  (Read 17849 times)

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #195 on: July 11, 2008, 12:16:45 PM »
To use a stock-market expression, this looks like a "triple witching hour" for addressing the relationship between the rest of creation and the work of redemption. When I preach this Sunday, do I sidestep ecology or bring it in?
Peace,
Michael

"For I would know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."
I Cor. 2:2

"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."  Romans 11:32

Preach that.
Some of us preach on the assigned texts for each Sunday. That (1) keeps us from just preaching our own hobby horses, (2) connects us with the thousands of others who are preaching on those text, (3) challenges us to preach on texts that may not be our favorites -- or even Luther's favorites, etc.

There is a bit of a conflict in these text. Isaiah says that God's Word will not come back void, yet in the parable, 75% of the time, the seed (God's Word) did not produce the intended fruit.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

RevCraig

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #196 on: July 11, 2008, 02:49:30 PM »
To use a stock-market expression, this looks like a "triple witching hour" for addressing the relationship between the rest of creation and the work of redemption. When I preach this Sunday, do I sidestep ecology or bring it in?
Peace,
Michael

"For I would know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."
I Cor. 2:2

"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."  Romans 11:32

Preach that.
Some of us preach on the assigned texts for each Sunday. That (1) keeps us from just preaching our own hobby horses, (2) connects us with the thousands of others who are preaching on those text, (3) challenges us to preach on texts that may not be our favorites -- or even Luther's favorites, etc.

There is a bit of a conflict in these text. Isaiah says that God's Word will not come back void, yet in the parable, 75% of the time, the seed (God's Word) did not produce the intended fruit.


But if you read the texts in Matthew, you notice the fault isn't in the Word, but the hearers. In fact, it does accomplish something, salvation or condemnation. Read verse 7 of Isaiah (which I am including in the reading on Sunday), as well as verse 10-17 of Matthew (which I am also including). The fault lies with our sinfulness, pride and arrogance, thinking that we know what God is "really saying and meaning." But that is false-"My ways are not your ways."


Team Hesse

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #197 on: July 11, 2008, 03:20:06 PM »
Some of us preach on the assigned texts for each Sunday.
I always preach from the lectionary, and I am trying to get the other preachers in our congregation to do the same.
Quote
That (1) keeps us from just preaching our own hobby horses,
which is why I'm trying to get our people to preach from the lectionary ...
Quote
(2) connects us with the thousands of others who are preaching on those text,
Sometimes, but oftentimes most Christian preaching is banalities of the Law. 
"You can be a better husband by ... "
Quote
(3) challenges us to preach on texts that may not be our favorites -- or even Luther's favorites, etc.
Certainly, but that's the beauty of it.  To connect a text to Jesus, since he told the folks on the Emmaus Road that all of scripture was about Him.  So if we aren't preaching about HIM, we're missing the point, aren't we?

Lou

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #198 on: July 11, 2008, 05:34:47 PM »
Certainly, but that's the beauty of it.  To connect a text to Jesus, since he told the folks on the Emmaus Road that all of scripture was about Him.  So if we aren't preaching about HIM, we're missing the point, aren't we?
That reminds me of a story of a children's sermon. The pastor asked, "What's gray and furry, with a big tail, eats nuts, and runs up and down trees?" A child answered, "It sounds a lot like a squirrel, but the answer's probably Jesus again."
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Michael Slusser

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #199 on: July 11, 2008, 05:48:33 PM »
Certainly, but that's the beauty of it.  To connect a text to Jesus, since he told the folks on the Emmaus Road that all of scripture was about Him.  So if we aren't preaching about HIM, we're missing the point, aren't we?
That reminds me of a story of a children's sermon. The pastor asked, "What's gray and furry, with a big tail, eats nuts, and runs up and down trees?" A child answered, "It sounds a lot like a squirrel, but the answer's probably Jesus again."

That sounds rude to me, Brian, much as I am opposed to "a canon within the canon."

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
Retired Roman Catholic priest and theologian

Richard Johnson

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #200 on: July 12, 2008, 01:35:04 AM »

If you had been elected bishop, and you expressed gratitude that you weren't, what would you have done about Ebenezer Lutheran and their pastor?

(1) I would make an unannounced site visit on a Sunday, attend worship and whatever else might be going on, and simply observe.

(2) I would make an appointment with the pastor to discuss the ministry and teaching happening there. I would ask the pastor for transcripts or recordings of several of her sermons so that I could have a better sense of what is actually being preached and taught.

(3) If what I learned from those encounters warranted further action, I would meet with the pastor and congregation and explain my concerns. If they were willing to accept correction, I would follow up on a regular basis. Among other things, I would insist that what is offensive on their website be removed.

(4) If they did not accept correction or instruction, I would file charges--having, of course, first made clear that this would be the result if they persisted in teaching and activities contrary to Lutheran doctrine.

This, incidentally, is more of less what happened with another pastor and congregation in the Sierra Pacific Synod some years ago, as I understand it. The bishop at that time determined that this pastor and congregation, while skating pretty close to the edge, were in fact within the bounds of Lutheran teaching. I doubt I would have agreed with that finding, but that is the process which was followed. As far as I know, there has been no such process with Ebenezer. But of course I could be wrong.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #201 on: July 12, 2008, 08:45:13 AM »

If you had been elected bishop, and you expressed gratitude that you weren't, what would you have done about Ebenezer Lutheran and their pastor?

(1) I would make an unannounced site visit on a Sunday, attend worship and whatever else might be going on, and simply observe.

(2) I would make an appointment with the pastor to discuss the ministry and teaching happening there. I would ask the pastor for transcripts or recordings of several of her sermons so that I could have a better sense of what is actually being preached and taught.

(3) If what I learned from those encounters warranted further action, I would meet with the pastor and congregation and explain my concerns. If they were willing to accept correction, I would follow up on a regular basis. Among other things, I would insist that what is offensive on their website be removed.

(4) If they did not accept correction or instruction, I would file charges--having, of course, first made clear that this would be the result if they persisted in teaching and activities contrary to Lutheran doctrine.

This, incidentally, is more of less what happened with another pastor and congregation in the Sierra Pacific Synod some years ago, as I understand it. The bishop at that time determined that this pastor and congregation, while skating pretty close to the edge, were in fact within the bounds of Lutheran teaching. I doubt I would have agreed with that finding, but that is the process which was followed. As far as I know, there has been no such process with Ebenezer. But of course I could be wrong.

I could respect and honor oversight conducted from the paradigm laid out above.  I may not agree with everything that might come up, but I could respect the process, and such a process would go a long ways toward restoring my trust in the visible manifestation of the office of holy ministry which several people pointed out has been severely compromised.  Sigh.

Lou

Bergs

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #202 on: July 13, 2008, 01:39:10 PM »
As I have declared before, I am all for and actively participate in reducing both pollution and dependence on foreign oil.  Still the evidence of global warming is mixed and even if true there is a large body of opinion that we can do little about it now and should spend our resources on helping folks, especially poor folks, cope with climate change.  To that end I am distressed by statements made by high church officials, including the Presiding Bishop, using the strongest of theological condemnations against people like me who question global warming and signing on to bad policy like the Kyoto treaties.

Here is yet another example of global warming hype from a Washington Post (Associated Press) article:

Quote
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Of course it also supports my contention that scientists really don't understand exactly what is causing climate change and how much of it is caused by humans.  The reason I say that?  The article was published in The Washington Post on November 2, 1922.  I don't think we can blame SUV's, jet-setting, oil companies, or Republicans for the conditions caused by that report.

Yet the ELCA goes on buying carbon credits etc.

Here is my reference for the above quote.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/

The alarmism over human caused global warming does not warrant the kind of resources and rhetoric spewed by ELCA leaders. 

Grace & Peace
Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
But let me tell Thee that now, today, people are more persuaded than ever that they have perfect freedom, yet they have brought their freedom to us and laid it humbly at our feet. But that has been our doing.
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Charles_Austin

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #203 on: July 13, 2008, 02:25:56 PM »
When Pope Benedict XVI reaches Australia this week, he is expected to talk about global warming and environmental morality. Shall we have at him for a while?

Bergs

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #204 on: July 13, 2008, 04:06:50 PM »
When Pope Benedict XVI reaches Australia this week, he is expected to talk about global warming and environmental morality. Shall we have at him for a while?

If he uses as strong a language as the Presiding Bishop and I was RC, I would complain bitterly on an RC blog site.
 

Grace & Peace
Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN
But let me tell Thee that now, today, people are more persuaded than ever that they have perfect freedom, yet they have brought their freedom to us and laid it humbly at our feet. But that has been our doing.
The Grand Inquisitor

Layman Randy

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #205 on: July 13, 2008, 04:55:29 PM »
When Pope Benedict XVI reaches Australia this week, he is expected to talk about global warming and environmental morality. Shall we have at him for a while?

Normal accomplished attempt at segue  (why do they keep leading you astray - you must respond :-\), but the thread is still about the statement referencing melting snow on Mount Kilimanjaro and what the Lutheran Church Federation including all of its associated groups must do about it, including from their basis as a community of faith.

1.  Did Lutherans have a greater role in causing the human-enhanced portion of global warming than other Northern European churches?  Did Christians? Did Americans? Why?
2.  Can Lutherans become the lead in advancing a Scripture-based approach to stewardship of the world God has entrusted to us - now and in the future, and how may that differ from how the Lutheran church has addressed, or been unaware of, this challenge in the past?
3.  Will the PB's statement be followed by an explicit, Scripture-based exposition of how this might occur, beginning with the need to recognize correctly the sin involved, through a contrite heart seek absolution, and including specific actions for the church to take top-to-bottom to be better stewards of God's creation (explicitly including our fellow man)?
4.  How was the carbon offset proclaimed for this vast adventure in Africa, and is its value to reducing the problem verifiable?

Layman Randy

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #206 on: July 14, 2008, 09:19:06 PM »
And now, the first human medical impact of Global Warming:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080714210823.ys7a8mb8&show_article=1

Of course, if the people moving to warmer climates would hydrate properly...

Michael Slusser

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #207 on: July 14, 2008, 10:50:46 PM »
Anyone who's curious can find out what I wound up preaching last Sunday. Send me your e-mail address.

Peace,
Michael
Fr. Michael Slusser
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TravisW

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #208 on: July 15, 2008, 11:59:48 AM »
Anyone who's curious can find out what I wound up preaching last Sunday. Send me your e-mail address.

Peace,
Michael

travis.woyen@gmail.com

Thanks,
Travis

Layman Randy

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Re: Melting Snow on Mount Kilimanjaro
« Reply #209 on: July 17, 2008, 04:36:12 PM »
When Pope Benedict XVI reaches Australia this week, he is expected to talk about global warming and environmental morality. Shall we have at him for a while?

If he uses as strong a language as the Presiding Bishop and I was RC, I would complain bitterly on an RC blog site.
 

Grace & Peace
Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN


I haven't yet found the whole text of Pope Benedict XVI's address to the WDY gathering on the pier in Sydney, but several different press service accounts indicate that he gave a strong and loving admonition on a variety of salient topics, with the environment-related portions providing a few brief quotes:
"(The world's) natural resources are being squandered in the pursuit of 'insatiable consumption'".
"Some of you come from island nations whose very existence is threatened by rising water levels; others from nations suffering the efforts of devastating drought."
"The concern for nonviolence, sustainable development, justice and peace, and care for our environment are of vital importance for humanity."

Full text would be helpful for comprehension of the overall strength of his remarks, and looking ahead to any new initiatives to encourage corrective action to mitigate threatened existence, suffering, violence, sustenance, justice, peace and environmental care for humanity's sake.