Author Topic: Giving Polygamy a Chance  (Read 29417 times)

G.Edward

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #165 on: January 25, 2010, 10:55:45 PM »
National Geographic jumped into the fray this month with a rather positive portrayal of polygamy as practiced by the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.  The article is well written and makes it seem like polygamy could be the right relationship arrangement for some people. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/polygamists/anderson-text

northchurch

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #166 on: January 25, 2010, 11:08:38 PM »
National Geographic jumped into the fray this month with a rather positive portrayal of polygamy as practiced by the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.  The article is well written and makes it seem like polygamy could be the right relationship arrangement for some people. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/polygamists/anderson-text

No doubt a commentary of equal value to that of the apostles and Church Fathers, if not better given our "deeper" knowledge of things." ::) :D Of course that does raise a question concerning comment, interpretation, etc. This "new" knowledge our culture speaks of, is it not simply Gnosticism, that old heresy, in new clothing? When we jettison the Scriptures for "new knowledge" and "our experience" and "our bound conscience" then that is what we get. Gnosticiim in 21st century garb.

Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ!
Rob Buechler, Pastor
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G.Edward

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #167 on: January 25, 2010, 11:16:02 PM »
Well, at least as it's presented in the article, it seems to fit the definition used in HSG&T - publicly accountable (within their own community) life-long, committed (can't say monogamous, although it is one at a time).  So a stretch, but it is a sort of PALMS relationship if only a variant reading of the intended meaning.  And they are consenting adults at some point.  This is part tongue-in-cheek and part heads-up, because HSGT lends itself to many applications.  Polygamy looks like the next one to hit the courts in our lifetime.  And how do we say, "No"?  On what basis?  HSG&T destroys any rational basis for refusing any relationship.

George Erdner

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #168 on: January 26, 2010, 12:07:11 AM »

Keith Falk

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #169 on: January 26, 2010, 12:14:37 AM »
HSG&T

Huh? WDTM?

Human Sexuality: Gift & Trust (Social Statement's name)

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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #170 on: January 26, 2010, 01:32:58 AM »
I keep asking: When did God stop speaking to the Church? The last of the great ecumenical councils? 1530? 1580? When was it that we were told all has been revealed and God has nothing more to say to us?
God never stops speaking to the Church through the Scriptures. He just doesn't contradict Himself, which is what some people seem to be expecting. Like a pastor announcing forgiveness week after week, God has the same old Gospel and He never stops speaking through it. Is the revisionists' "new thing" simply people bringing their new (and supposedly greater) understanding to the old thing or God saying something new that contradicts what He used to say? It is a theologically fraught position either way.

Your (and other's) repeated statement that we have approved sin indicates that you have a warped idea what the ELCA has done.

The gospel lesson for this Sunday (Luke 4:21-30) sounds very contemporary: Jesus proclaims God's acts of grace that reached beyond Israel (outside of the church? or "to those sinners") and the people get so angry that they want to kill Jesus. Should our message of God's unmerited grace by so scandalous that it fills people (especially those who believe that they are God's chosen people) with rage? Have we seen that happen recently? I haven't heard anyone threatening to kill a messenger; but congregations are being destroyed.
Brian, you're confusing a doctrine with a direction or trajectory. It is a doctrine that salvation if from the Jews but that Jew and Gentile are included. It is a logical fallacy to say that the situation today with approving sin is therefore parallel.

Your (and other's) oft repeated statement that we have approved sin indicates a warped idea of what the ELCA has done.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #171 on: January 26, 2010, 01:37:00 AM »
My thoughts exactly. I know Mark and had him for seminary classes. Nice enough. There are better commentators.

True, and there are many worse commentators. Actually, I seldom quote his commentaries. More often, I reference Chasing the Eastern Star: Adventures in Biblical Reader-Response Criticism and Loving Jesus.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #172 on: January 26, 2010, 01:37:16 AM »

And there can be just as much of a "traditional arrogance" that believes God only spoke to those men in the first few centuries after Christ's resurrection.

And naturally you once again attribute to those you oppose something other than what they actually say.

If you can't exegete plain American English of your own era...

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The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #173 on: January 26, 2010, 01:42:24 AM »
The latest Christian Century has an article about polygamy: http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=8169
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #174 on: January 26, 2010, 01:44:03 AM »

And there can be just as much of a "traditional arrogance" that believes God only spoke to those men in the first few centuries after Christ's resurrection.

And naturally you once again attribute to those you oppose something other than what they actually say.

If you can't exegete plain American English of your own era...

I figure if the opponents are going to mischaracterize us, I'll do the same to them. Childish, I know.

More seriously, it is highly likely that because of our differences in thinking, we will read, understand, and interpret the comments differently. Reader-response criticism is alive and well in the 21st century.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 01:45:43 AM by Brian Stoffregen »
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Steven Tibbetts

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2010, 01:47:01 AM »

More often, I reference Chasing the Eastern Star: Adventures in Biblical Reader-Response Criticism...

Every time you give that title, I have to consciously think, "Don't worry, he's not referring to Masons...."

Shuddering nonetheless, spt+

« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:14:08 AM by The Rev. Steven P. Tibbetts, STS »
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Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2010, 01:50:59 AM »

More often, I reference Chasing the Eastern Star: Adventures in Biblical Reader-Response Criticism...

Every time you give that title, I have to consciously think, "Don't worry, he's not referring to Masons...."

Think biblically: "Where is he who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east and have come to worship him." (Mt 2:2, NASB) He spends some pages dealing with that text.
"The church had made us like ill-taught piano students; we play our songs, but we never really hear them, because our main concern is not to make music, but but to avoid some flub that will get us in dutch." [Robert Capon, _Between Noon and Three_, p. 148]

Charles_Austin

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2010, 04:28:29 AM »
Pastor Tibbetts writes (re the book title Chasing the Eastern Star):
Every time you give that title, I have to consciously think, "Don't worry, he's not referring to Masons...."

I comment:
Not to mention what to think or do about the "Rainbow girls."  ;D ;)

G.Edward

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #178 on: January 26, 2010, 07:53:48 AM »

More often, I reference Chasing the Eastern Star: Adventures in Biblical Reader-Response Criticism...

Every time you give that title, I have to consciously think, "Don't worry, he's not referring to Masons...."

Shuddering nonetheless, spt+


Lady Masons, none the less!  ;)  Is there something you'd like to share with us, Brian?

James Gustafson

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Re: Giving Polygamy a Chance
« Reply #179 on: January 26, 2010, 09:16:01 AM »
Your (and other's) oft repeated statement that we have approved sin indicates a warped idea of what the ELCA has done.

Why are you saying that the ELCA has a warped perception of self?  According to the bound conscience clause it's an ELCA approved position to preach and teach that homosexual activities are contrary to biblical and historical church doctrines, so it is an ELCA approved position to state that the ELCA has approved sin in congregations which teach and preach differently.  If the ELCA is going to advocate double mindedness perhaps someone should remind them of James 1:8, he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways..  The ELCA is purposely double minded about the issues they brought up at the CWA meeting, an issue that they think and they say they cannot find a satisfactory for everyone answer to.




(For context, James 1:5-8
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.  But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Ask God and read scripture seeking his answer, ask in faith, without doubting what the Scripture says in regards to your answer.  Doubting the scriptural answer from the Lord means that person must not suppose that they will receive an answer from the Lord...)