Author Topic: Herod is smiling  (Read 8778 times)

peter_speckhard

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Herod is smiling
« on: November 23, 2007, 08:13:29 PM »
A voice is heard in Ramah, laughter and great celebration,
Rachel rejoicing for the planet
And refusing to lament
That her children are dead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879

MMH

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2007, 08:54:03 PM »
I grieved to read about the life she destroyed to save the planet.  I am reminded of the Jewish proverb that "he who saves one life saves the world."  One wonders about the negative corollary.

But as for the sterilizations, I recall  a liine used often as an undergraduate- "that's not a tragedy- that's evolution in action!"  At least these wingnuts will not be spreading their craziness on.


John Dornheim

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2007, 09:10:24 PM »
That some people shouldn't be parents comes as a surprise?

John Dornheim

LCMS87

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2007, 09:18:04 PM »
Given Toni's rationale for aborting her child and the reason all four people quoted in the article give for being sterilized, wouldn't consistency suggest that they would be doing an even "greener" thing by committing suicide?  According to their values, wouldn't that be sort of a "Greater love has no one than this . . ." kind of thing?  They couldn't help being born, of course, but not to put an end to their carbon footprint at the earliest opportunity?

Lord, have mercy.    


peter_speckhard

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2007, 10:07:28 PM »
That some people shouldn't be parents comes as a surprise?

John Dornheim
I never said I was surprised. Her actions are perfectly consistent with the worldview I constantly criticize and you constantly defend.

MMH

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2007, 10:12:45 PM »
Given Toni's rationale for aborting her child and the reason all four people quoted in the article give for being sterilized, wouldn't consistency suggest that they would be doing an even "greener" thing by committing suicide?  According to their values, wouldn't that be sort of a "Greater love has no one than this . . ." kind of thing?  They couldn't help being born, of course, but not to put an end to their carbon footprint at the earliest opportunity?

Lord, have mercy.     



Maybe we are going about this all the wrong way.  All this time, I have been anti-abortion. Maybe what we need are retroactive abortions.

Charles_Austin

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2007, 10:15:43 PM »
A person may validly and in good conscience choose not to bear children or father children for a lot of reasons, but "saving the planet" is a dumb one. And then to make such a silly action a "public witness" rises to a level of idiocy that hardly bears discussing. The whole thing dishonors those who seek to have children responsibly and those who care about over-population (which is not, by the way, the most serious threat the world faces.) 

Rev. BT Ball

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007, 10:53:12 PM »
Charles, more than idiocy; it is idolatry.   
Ben Ball

John Dornheim

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2007, 12:00:06 AM »
Charles, more than idiocy; it is idolatry.   
Ben Ball

Yes, but idiocy seems all the rage these days.
John Dornheim

Charles_Austin

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2007, 09:27:35 AM »
Idolatry may put our souls in peril; idiocy puts our earth in peril. It's more dangerous.

MMH

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2007, 09:37:11 AM »
Idolatry may put our souls in peril; idiocy puts our earth in peril. It's more dangerous.

Except some itinerant 1st Century Palestinean rabbi  with an apocalyptic fixation is reputed by some to have said "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

But it's not like he was God or something.... ;)

Gary Hatcher

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2007, 09:41:24 AM »
Idolatry may put our souls in peril; idiocy puts our earth in peril. It's more dangerous.
Idolatry is idiocy taken to the extreme, thus it too places the earth in peril.  Witness the idolatry of Hilter, Pol Pot, Stalin or any of a hundred who in their idiocy thought they were God.
Gary Hatcher STS,
Pastor St. Paul & First Lutheran Churches
Garnavillo & McGregor, IA

Charles_Austin

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2007, 10:13:44 AM »
It seems that the most casual comment gives rise to theological disputation.  ;)

So Matt writes:
Except some itinerant 1st Century Palestinean rabbi  with an apocalyptic fixation is reputed by some to have said "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

And I comment:
I have a way to "escape" the idolaters who would heave my soul into hell, so they do not scare me; but I am stuck on this earth with the idiots who would poison the air and water I breathe before I go somewhere else.

peter_speckhard

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2007, 11:24:44 AM »
It seems that the most casual comment gives rise to theological disputation.  ;)

So Matt writes:
Except some itinerant 1st Century Palestinean rabbi  with an apocalyptic fixation is reputed by some to have said "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

And I comment:
I have a way to "escape" the idolaters who would heave my soul into hell, so they do not scare me; but I am stuck on this earth with the idiots who would poison the air and water I breathe before I go somewhere else.
I knew it! I knew Charles was amphibious! But either way, the very same "escape" has promised that A) there will terrible times in the last days, and B) your heavenly Father will take care of you. So no need to be afraid of anything. Work for what is right and wholesome, to be sure, but don't be afraid. The reason for this thread is the increasingly mainstream eco-fanticism that views people as pollution and people-lessness as sacred.

I once did a Bible study on Christian evironmentalism and the feedback I received made clear that people were not used to defining their terms at all. For example, what is pollution? It must be something out of place or out of proportion. For example, the giant heaps of coal I see across the river are not pollution; if that much coal in one place made for pollution, the mountains that coal was mined from would have been nothing but pollution from day one. The question is whether people want to live next to a heap of coal or not, or whether they're willing to trade some amount of coal and smoke in the air (where they don't want it) in exchange for heat int he house in winter (where they do want it). Tourism boards, industry, and the local populace all might have competing but intertwining views on the usefulness of that coal pile. But to call something pollution is to say that its usefulfness to our purposes is what justifies it or not. After all, who is it that determines whether something is out of place or out of proportion? Out of place or out of proportion for what? To whose purposes? Even environmentalists tacitly acknowledge this with the arguments they make for wht we should not pollute. So it is inconsistent to then make the claim that people are pollution. 

Charles_Austin

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Re: Herod is smiling
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2007, 11:31:38 AM »
Peter writes (re pollution):
the mountains that coal was mined from would have been nothing but pollution from day one.

I comment:
Peter! Thou knowest that those mountains "from day one" - if there was a "day one" - were not originally "mountains," nor were they coal.  ;D ;D