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Messages - Steverem

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Your Turn / Re: WELS Hymnal Project
« on: September 16, 2015, 12:10:29 PM »

The Nicene Creed was written around A.D. 325 in defense of the true Christian faith. The Council at Nicea developed it, expanding on the deity of Christ, in order to safeguard the apostles’ teaching.


We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary, and became fully human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who in unity with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Whatever the reason for the chosen language, I think it's safe to assume that "feminization" wasn't driving it.  Jesus is pretty clearly identified as (a) the Son of God; and (b) male.  A bit of a tempest in a teapot.

Your Turn / Re: Hockey: Who Has a Favorite?
« on: September 10, 2015, 03:46:06 PM »
To be fair, I think Charles' point was that he would never root for a team that intentionally spells its name contrary to convention (e.g., "Komets").  I believe he opts not to listen to Motley Crue for the same reason.

Your Turn / Re: Hockey: Who Has a Favorite?
« on: September 10, 2015, 09:46:03 AM »
C-A-P-S, Caps! Caps Caps!

Have a good friend in the Capitals' front office.  During my bachelor days when I worked a few blocks from the arena, I was a regular.  Much less regular now that I work out in the exurbs and have four kids.

And I would be remiss if I didn't mention my alma mater, Miami University, which has become a national power in collegiate hockey.  Oh, to have the last 1:30 of the national championship game in 2009 back!  (Blew a 3-1 lead, lost in OT.)

Your Turn / Re: Pope Francis-Absolution and Annulments
« on: September 09, 2015, 12:34:20 PM »
Religion Dispatches ran a story recently on the reaction from some nuns to the statement by Pope Francis.

"Responding to Pope Francis’ announcement that during the upcoming “Year of Mercy” all priests would be empowered to forgive women who have had abortions and return them to full communion with the Catholic Church, the National Coalition of American Nuns said that Francis “still doesn’t get it” when it comes to women and abortion.

"In a statement, NCAN acknowledged the “Pope’s desire to be pastoral” and said that “making any statement about abortion might seem to be helpful.” However, Sister Donna Quinn of NCAN told The Independent that Francis “gets it within the Vatican sense and about the hierarchy, but he still won’t let women have full membership with the Catholic tradition.”

"NCAN said “women do not find this new ruling very affirming” for the following reasons:

    It does not respect the moral authority women have in making decisions for their own reproductive autonomy.
    It still holds those decisions made by women as sinful.
    It does not acknowledge that sperm from males produced these unplanned pregnancies.
    It only serves to highlight the fact that women should be eligible for all sacraments.
    It continues the practice of men proclaiming what is right and just for women."

NCAN invited Pope Francis to meet with them “to see how we might help each other with Justice issues for women.”

Fringiest of fringe groups - the kind of order that is only going to get mentioned in a "journalistic" outlet like Religion Dispatches that has a clear agenda to push.  The couple of thousand of NCAN members (not all of whom are nuns or even Roman Catholic) represent no one but themselves.

Your Turn / Re: WELCA "Ten-Second Sermon"
« on: September 08, 2015, 04:50:58 PM »
The author of this "sermon" is Terri Lackey, who works for LifeWay Christian Resources of the Southern Baptist Convention.  However, this still does not explain how this "sermon" was selected for inclusion on the WELCA website...

It looks like she did at one point work for LifeWay (almost 21 years, actually), but has been in the employ of the ELCA for over 11 years, serving currently as WELCA's director of communications.  Hard to know if she switched church bodies, or if she was working for one of her employers while being a member of another church body.  Safe to say that the SBC would likely disagree with her interpretation of the verse at hand.

Your Turn / Re: WELCA "Ten-Second Sermon"
« on: September 08, 2015, 12:16:54 PM »

If Jesus didn't make a mistake, then this woman and/or her daughter were "dogs" in his mind?

Not sure why you think those are the only two possible understandings.  Seems to me to be very much in the rabbinic tradition to express what might be the view of the day in order to have the listener think through the issue and formulate a proper response.  I always thought Jesus' question was more intended for those listening than to the woman to whom it was addressed.

Of course, the ELCAW interpretation has the God of the universe, in human form, grossly misunderstanding a basic theological truth.  That is to say, he misunderstood his own nature, his own mission, and his own relationship to those to whom he was sent.  Why would we worship such a God?  What else might he be wrong about?

Your Turn / Re: WELCA "Ten-Second Sermon"
« on: September 08, 2015, 10:40:23 AM »
In the quoted section it is the first and third sentences that are in need of some good editing.  The second sentence is fine.  If said slow enough, you could fill your ten second limit.  Then the fourth sentence would be superfluous and simply dropped from the sermon manuscript.

Jesus made an error in judgment?  Our Lord made a mistake?  Huh.  Looks like I can pack up my office and we can shut the church doors and divvy up the proceeds from the sale.  Then I'll buy a pontoon boat and the kids and I will fish and my wife and I will drink some good Pinot.

If I wanted to, I could say that this ten second sermon is blasphemous.  A simple definition of blasphemy is bringing God down to the level of all the other gods, of making Him nothing.  The ten second sermon does that. 

If there was an editor for this, it just reaffirms that editors don't catch everything.  I know I miss a lot of stuff. 


I have to admit, I'm a little impressed.  Creating such a clear, demonstrable example of heresy in such a limited time frame is not easy to do.

Your Turn / WELCA "Ten-Second Sermon"
« on: September 08, 2015, 09:54:45 AM »
I've been blissfully away from this forum for the last 10 days or so, so my apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but what thoughts do folks have about the following "ten-second sermon" that appeared on the Women of the ELCA's Facebook feed, based on on Mark 7:27 ("Jesus said, 'Let the childeren be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs.'"):

"If our lord Jesus can make an error in judgment, we mere humans certainly will.  The problem is not in the mistake, the problem is in failing to acknowledge it.  Jesus said he was sorry by healing a precious daughter.  How will you say it?"

Your Turn / Re: Little Sisters of the Poor and the contraception mandate
« on: August 27, 2015, 01:51:23 PM »

Yeah, kind of. He was talking about how it could be seen as an ( imperfect) sign of care and concern for the other.

Oddly enough, this is the read I have from ELCA concerning abortion.  An imperfect sign of care and concern for women.

Yeah, murder often is an imperfect way to show love.

I just now received an email from ELCA Advocacy with the subject line, "Advocate for federal programs that work to support all children of God!"  Held out hope that they might say something about those children in the womb, but alas, their "all" is significantly less encompassing than one might think.

They caved: .

But ... but ... Charles assured us that churches would never be coerced to hire active homosexuals/marry same-sex couples/disavow their opposition to homosexual behavior.  Is it possible that our own humble correspondent has underestimated the power and the speed of the zeitgeist to dismantle millennia of social convention?

Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Bishop Comes Out at Youth Conference
« on: August 26, 2015, 03:45:10 PM »

How about cities that tried to forbid Chick-fil-A restaurants in their cities because of causes the founder supported?  It was not enough for people to agitate for a boycott of the restaurants (surely everyone has a right to choose who they will and will not patronize) no the choice to boycott or not boycott Chick-fil-A was to be taken away from the people and decided by their progressive masters for them.

Speaking of which ...

Your Turn / Re: Planned Parenthood
« on: August 20, 2015, 10:59:10 AM »
Mr. Hummel writes:
Jumping up & down saying Republicans are mean is not funny.

I comment:
No, actually, it is quite sad; because there is some underlying truth; hence in the right situations, it can be hilarious.
You have an opinion on those who would have mass deportations of people from our country? Or on those who would send their children back to a land where they have never lived? Or on policies that prevent their elderly parents from coming here to be cared for by their children? Or on separating husbands and wives?
BTW "satire" does not have to be funny. Consider Jonathan Swift. Not many laughs there, but deft and satirical social analysis.

Your Swift reference is quite appropriate.  The title of his most famous essay is "A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Then Beneficial to the Publick."  It bites hard at the rationale underlying PP's gruesome practices.


Your Turn / Re: "Lutheran Diversity" - and Other Myths
« on: August 19, 2015, 03:54:46 PM »
First, it is not an acronym. An acronym is generally a pronounceable abbreviation, like NATO.  Then, at times I am dictating my comments.  Voice recognition and computer technology is not perfect. I shall try to do better in the future.  (Sometimes, one does not know just what it is that will sizzle the nose hairs of one's readers.)

We've had this discussion before,  While the first dictionary definition of "acronym" is as you describe, the second definition allows for initializations that are not as easily pronounced.  Both are acceptable uses of the term.  But, if you must, feel free to refer to the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod as "LUC-muzz."  We've been called worse.

Your Turn / Re: Planned Parenthood
« on: August 18, 2015, 02:55:19 PM »

Yup, and I bet that you also justify the killing of the unborn, such as to save the life of the mother. So we aren't all that different.

Mr. Garner's approach = perhaps a few thousand  very difficult cases a year, where every effort is made to save the lives of both mother and child.

Pr. Stoffregen's approach = tens of millions of lives sacrificed, with little to no effort to save the life of the unborn child.

Seemps pretty different to me.

Your Turn / Re: Planned Parenthood
« on: August 18, 2015, 12:30:42 PM »
" blood thirstiness"? Talk about incoherent, weird, and remarkable.  Not to mention unfair.
There must be a way to have this discussion on terms that are not totally and completely iand rigidly defined only by those on the so-called "pro life".
But no...

Well, if we want to start redefining the terms, how about losing the "so-called" descriptor and scare quotes when talking about those who seek to protect the lives of the unborn?  If you can see fit to do that, I promise not to refer to you as a "so-called" pastor.

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