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Messages - Steverem

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16
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran, Catholics "on the way" to greater unity
« on: November 10, 2015, 10:17:38 AM »
What is a yawner is whatever the IRD writes about any major denomination, for they have nurtured a hatred for "mainline" churches for decades.

"Where there is charity and wisdom, there is neither fear nor ignorance."  - Francis of Assisi

Here is hoping Charles is able to nurture the former two traits.  Alas, the latter appear to be in the ascendancy - particularly as they relate to his views of the IRD.

17
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran, Catholics "on the way" to greater unity
« on: November 04, 2015, 04:26:30 PM »
Why is everything all or nothing with ecumenism? I read the document and found several positives, but I also found some things that I think were charitably naive. Obviously as a Missouri Synod member the document and its intentions do not necessarily speak for me, but I still find value in it. I also think there are things in there that can be a springboard for conversation between Rome and the ILC (which are due to begin soon). No matter the perspective one comes from I just don't understand the "ALL IN" approach or the "dumpster fire" approach to ecumenism. Let ecumenism be what it is: An honest effort to foster dialogue that prayerfully leads to cooperation and if, in God's time, it leads to unity then ring the bells and never let the Alleluias cease. Just don't force it, and don't blast it either.

My 0.02.

M. Staneck

Well said.  My personal experience is that ecumenism works best when it is bottom-up.  When it is approached from a top-down perspective (think big ecumenical councils of the national and world levels), agendas get set and things get a little dicey.

18
Your Turn / Re: Baptize my grandson!
« on: October 27, 2015, 04:15:14 PM »
Pretty sure this was the premise for an episode of All in the Family.

EDIT:  Yes, yes it was:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi8LJGeFWds


19
Your Turn / Re: Nones at Divinity School
« on: October 20, 2015, 04:21:24 PM »
I repeat. People are interested in studying theology. Should we not be pleased with that?

I guess it depends on if you see these schools simply as graduate programs for the study of theology, or if they are designed for the formation of pastors.  If the former, then, by all means, bring 'em all in.  But if the idea is to create and train shepherds to tend their flocks, then recruiting non-believers to the cause is somewhat problematic, no?

20
Your Turn / Re: Nones at Divinity School
« on: October 20, 2015, 03:53:39 PM »
No surprises at all in the judgmental responses here.
How you pack so much irony in so few words continually amazes me.

He is a professional writer, you know ...

21
Your Turn / Re: The Refreshing Wisdom of Bishop Elizabeth Eaton
« on: October 20, 2015, 12:24:19 PM »
Yes, Lou, it is a dystopian, apocalyptic world, ruled by human depravity, teetering on the edge of destruction. You few "Christians" huddle together and cast your eyes on the terrors around you, never seeing hope, never seeing other Christians, never seeing God's grace at work. You await rapture, plan emigration from Babylon, or pray that the sword of the Lord soon does its smiting of those involved in the sins you see.
Animal Farm again. Does anyone in this forum ever read anything written in the current era?


I think it was Winston Churchill who once opined, "we see forward as far as we are willing to look back." YMMV


Lou

What has it been - maybe 75 years since he said that?  Disregard!

 ;)

22
Are we to pray ostentatiously before every public event?  Before shopping for groceries? Before having the car washed?  Before getting a haircut?  Before going to a movie?
 Why this concern about praying before a sporting event?

Most of us, frankly, aren't concerned about it at all.  We acknowledge that it has been done for quite a long time, and are comfortable with the practice continuing.

You, on the other hand ...

23
What is the spiritual value of any prayer? Before meals? At bedtime? At St. Paul's we have a school-wide prayer at the start of every school day. Do you think we do that to attach a veneer of respectability and morality to math or spelling? Who thinks of a prayer as an exaltation of an event? Our school has prayers before every sporting event. We pray for safety and sportsmanship and in thanksgiving for our gifts and opportunities to compete. Good grief, Charles and Norman, did either of you ever play a sport? On the field (or floor, or rink, whatever) it is very easy for tempers to flare, for taunting or bitterness against an "enemy" to get the best of you. The idea of both teams coming together after the game for a prayer of thanks and/or forgiveness and/or healing is one that manifestly appeals to many, many Christian athletes. But hey, they're all phonies and show-offs, so I can see why it would offend you.

This.

24
I think that the possible motivation for these prayers at football games is to attach a veneer of respectability and morality to an activity unrelated to religion.  By bringing religion to the event it is an exaltation of the event itself.  It is as Holden Caulfield might put it, pure phoniness. It makes people feel good about football because a religious activity has become attached to it.

... Or, and this is a wild and crazy guess, they are praying for the protection of the participants in a physically demanding, dangerous sport; making a call for sportsmanship; and acknowledging that there is something larger than sport and the passions it creates.  But sure, I guess thinking it is a conscious, coordinated effort to prop up homogeneous religious behavior and subvert any aberrant belief or behavior is a  legitimate hypothesis. [Rolls eyes and gently bangs head against desk.]

25
Your Turn / Re: Planned Parenthood
« on: October 12, 2015, 08:50:52 AM »
From Jennifer Bendery, Congressional correspondent for Huffington Post – Oct. 8, 2015
(Emphasis added – CA)
   WASHINGTON -- Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said Thursday that the GOP's investigation into Planned Parenthood's use of federal funds hasn't turned up anything. "Did I look at the finances and have a hearing specifically as to the revenue portion and how they spend? Yes. Was there any wrongdoing? I didn't find any," he said during a Judiciary Committee hearing on the family planning provider.
    Chaffetz, a candidate for House speaker, grilled Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards during a five-hour hearing last week. He questioned her salary, asked about the organization's expenses and revenues, and pressed Richards on why the group had revenue of $127 million last year if it's a nonprofit. (Nonprofits put their revenues back into their programs.)
    But after all that, he concluded that Planned Parenthood isn't doing anything sketchy with its money. "Did we find any wrongdoing? The answer was no," Chaffetz said.
   His concession will be music to Democrats' ears, who have long accused Republicans of trying to sink Planned Parenthood because they oppose abortion. The women's health care provider gets about $500 million a year in federal funds, but federal law prohibits any of it from being used for abortions. Instead, the money is used to subsidize a range of health care services for low-income women, including birth control, cancer screenings and tests for sexually transmitted diseases.
   Republicans have been ramping up their attacks on Planned Parenthood after anti-abortion activists released heavily edited undercover videos a few months ago that purported to show the family planning provider selling fetal tissue after abortions. Multiple state investigations and a federal investigation have so far been unable to find any facts to support that claim.
   Planned Parenthood, which legally accepts money to cover the costs of transporting donated fetal tissue to medical researchers, has slammed the videos as "deceptively edited" and denies any wrongdoing.
   Chaffetz said Thursday that he still supports digging into Planned Parenthood's activities, even if they're using their money appropriately. "I think there will continue to be investigations," he said.
The fact that this source calls the videos "heavily edited" shows they are more interested in propaganda than truth. All the full length videos have been released and examined as well. They are hiding nothing. As it was an undercover operation, they edited out the parts where they were traveling to and from the clinics, waiting around, going to the bathroom, etc. Nothing, absolutely nothing, of any pertinence whatsoever was omitted or edited to be misleading.

The fact that the article is all about the political parties involves shows that that it is simply partisan. It is more interested in the Democrat/Republican aspect of the matter than whether or not Planned Parenthood should receive taxpayer funding.

Yep.  Planned Parenthood says in their talking points that the videos were "heavily edited," without providing any examples of this, and far too many media outlets parrot the claim.  Much like the (completely wrong) talking point that PP provides mammograms (not one PP facility in the country does so) being repeated as fact ad infinitum.  At best, it is horrendously bad journalism, and at worst, it hints at collusion.  Certainly the journalist in our midst can recognize that.

26
Your Turn / Re: Hockey: Who Has a Favorite?
« on: October 09, 2015, 03:49:09 PM »
Collegiately, I root for my alma mater, the Miami University RedHawks (#10 in preseason polls).  Professionally, it's C-A-P-S, CAPS! CAPS! CAPS!

27
Your Turn / Re: Least favorite hymns in the hymnal...
« on: October 08, 2015, 02:20:53 PM »
I don't see any reason why they added a second tune for My Hope is Built in LSB...

That's really the original tune from "evangelicaldom." I like it sung to "Melita" (as one option in the LBW).

Peace, JOHN

Far and away my favorite tune for it.

28
Your Turn / Re: Article on different types of Lutherans in the ELCA
« on: October 01, 2015, 05:23:05 PM »
There was a book that came out a number of years ago called Lutherans Today that did a good job breaking down the various groups and factions within Lutheranism.  Don't know if I heard about it here or not, but it is a nice resource to have.

29
Your Turn / Re: A Call for Discussion
« on: September 21, 2015, 09:36:34 AM »
I'm not a pastor - don't even play one on this message board - so I defer to the wisdom of those with a more formal theological training, but when Paul talks about meat sacrificed to idols in I Corinthians, is he not explicitly promoting unity at the expense of uniformity?  From my lay reading of the text, it's not even that the two phrases aren't synonymous, but that demanding one can be at the cost of the other.

I'll hang up and listen for a reply.

30
Your Turn / Re: dilemma of faith and works
« on: September 17, 2015, 11:12:57 AM »


Yes, the Reformed and others see the fulfilling of the law as the ultimate goal of human existence.


Not sure my Reformed friends would agree - unless you are equating "fulfilling the law" with glorifying God:

Quote from: Westminster Shorter Catechism

Q. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.


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