Messages

271

Your Turn / Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments

« on: July 22, 2020, 02:52:40 PM »

I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke

The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

272

Your Turn / Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments

« on: July 22, 2020, 12:58:31 PM »

How about a unanimous yes from this relatively fractured discussion board for a name change in Selma, Alabama.

The Edmund Pettus Bridge changed to the Rep. John Lewis Bridge. 

Any opposition? 

Dave Benke

From today's NYT. There's plenty of sympathy to rename after John Lewis. However, the people of Selma don't seem united on the question at this time.   

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/politics/edmund-pettus-bridge-renamed-john-lewis.html?searchResultPosition=1

Peace, JOHN

The local Democratic Representative make a good case for leaving the decision to the local citizens ... from the NYT article

“Representative Terri Sewell, Democrat of Alabama, said in a statement that although she understood the desire to honor Mr. Lewis’s legacy, a decision to rename the bridge should be made locally in Selma.”

273

Your Turn / Re: Election 2020

« on: July 13, 2020, 12:34:27 PM »

Many here are being dismissive of the views of a person who has worked in the CIA for 34 years, with special responsibility for that part of the world.
And where did you get the idea that I was “dismissive” of General Powell’s comments? I never even mentioned him.
I also do not know what gives a recent poster credentials to evaluate the CIA agent’s (who, BTW, has a name so is not “unknown”) competence.

Of course no one indicated the op ed writer was unknown ... but a response such as this following the post of links to General Powell’s opinions ...

Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?

indicate a rather dismissive posture towards General Powell’s views ..

As Mike Gehlhausen indicates... Gen Powell is no fan of the president ... so for him not to pile on and or remain silent on the subject speaks volumes.

274

Your Turn / Re: Election 202

« on: July 13, 2020, 09:48:36 AM »

Opinions are like eyeballs, everyone has at least one. So what?

So what??  General Powell’s credentials far exceed the credentials of this unknown career bureaucrat. As has been said .. everyone has at least one opinion ... but credentials also matter.

Mr Gehlhausen ... remember some suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome ... and/or worship at the altar of the New York Times.

Julio 

275

Your Turn / Re: Election 2020

« on: July 13, 2020, 09:22:28 AM »

Yes, Brian, we know the protocols.
But sometimes it’s necessary provide information that allows people to look beyond protocols.
And sometimes it’s necessary for the citizenry to know what has been delivered to its leadership behind closed doors And to know what the leadership did with that information.
The writer was not expressing views as a government official, but as a citizen.

Gen Colon Powell apparently differs with this career bureaucrat ...

Colin Powell suggests media had ‘hysterical’ reaction to Russian bounty reports

https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/colin-powell-suggests-media-had-hysterical-reaction-to-russian-bounty-reports/amp/

Colin Powell: Media Reaction To Reports On Russian Bounty Intelligence Was ‘Hysterical’

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/10/colin-powell-media-reaction-to-reports-on-russian-bounty-intelligence-was-hysterical/

Julio

276

Your Turn / Re: Election 2020

« on: July 13, 2020, 01:08:15 AM »

We have been hearing for four years the President Trump is a fascist, an imminent threat to democracy, free speech, and a free press. How many news people has he jailed for publishing things he didn't like? How many news outlets has he closed down? How effective has he been at censoring the internet? How many entertainment figures has he gotten fired for saying things he didn't like?


In this same time frame, how many news people have been fired for publishing things that the Left didn't like? How many entertainers have been fired for having at some time in their life said something or posted something that the Left didn't like? Where does the "cancel culture" come from, the White House?

Gracia Padre Fienen ... there is so much blatant bias in the press today that the press feels obligated to BE the news because they are no longer capable of objectivity reporting the news.  Watch the raw feed of many events ... IF they are even reported on, any reporting of the actual event facts by the press is purely accidental.

277

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 13, 2020, 12:53:35 AM »

Can we get something straight? Name-calling is bad. By definition it is "abusive language or insults."  It's been stated, "Name-calling is one of the most damaging and painful types of bullying."

This is not name-calling. It addresses another's comments, not the person.

It's a massive no. Your posts are childlike in the worst ways, and the stances you defend are tribal and have nothing to do with principles or general beliefs. Keep your poison to yourself.

This, however, is blatant, rude name-calling.

I think you're a clown. And clowns are for birthday parties, not conversations. So unless I see you at a birthday party I won't be engaging you in conversation.

Save your energy.

M. Staneck

Gracias Padre Kirchner ... in light of the Eighth commandment teaching link at the end of this post, the following is a further example of blatant rude name calling ....

Someone, who has an extraordinary amount of time on their hands, is now posting as a cartoon character version of a Latino.

M. Staneck

Doesn’t appear to address another’s comments ... just ridicules another poster ...

And then there is making apparently baseless accusations concerning off topic subjects (unless ‘packing heat’ has REALLY been a topic of the Gottesdienst blog) that is apparently the intended butt of the following ridiculing post ...

That blog site has writers who would advocate packing heat in church to protect from life's dangers,

M. Staneck

Provide a link to a thus far unlocatable Gottesdienst blog post concerning “packing heat” and this will be removed) ... and finally ...

...  the passage selected for this diatribe,

Dave Benke

Was it really Padre Benke’s intent to “ defend him, speak well of him and explain everything in the kindest way” Dr Karl Fabrizius when he referred to his writings as “diatribe” given that diatribe is defined as “a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something“?

Perhaps a review of the Eighth commandment is in order as in this link that was shared with me earlier this week.

https://catechismlockdown.blogspot.com/2020/07/10-eighth-commandment.html

A neighbor this evening indicated that a forum he participates on was in need of a new moderator ... he suggested that a requirement to post on that neighborhood forum should that posters should be stone sober.

Maybe ALPB posters should review the Eighth commandment before posting as well.

Señor, ten piedad!

Julio
PS Padre Staneck ... you are forgiven for your ill placed, off color Latino ‘joke’.

278

Your Turn / Re: We Are Not Quite Back - Will We Ever Be?

« on: July 12, 2020, 07:50:17 PM »

From the Symbol of our faith:

“....Creator of all things, visible and invisible....”

Maybe there are notes/records on why the necessity to further elaborate on ‘all’ ... because ‘all’ is pretty much all inclusive.

Gracias,

Julio

279

Your Turn / Re: We Are Not Quite Back - Will We Ever Be?

« on: July 12, 2020, 05:39:10 PM »

Someone asks:
So, Pastor Austin, are we irresponsible or crazy or faithful?
I muse:
Or lucky?

A now sainted pastor once defined luck as ‘Divine intervention of the Lord’.  Though it was many years ago that he said that, I often remember it when ‘luck’ is mentioned by others.

May you be blessed by the Divine intervention of the Lord!

Julio

280

Your Turn / Re: We Are Not Quite Back - Will We Ever Be?

« on: July 10, 2020, 01:07:57 PM »

Having lurked in the background for a while, I registered just to respond to this:

Charles Austin said:
Who is willing to try this?   Well, I guess my parish has since March 15.
Go back to "the way we were" in church.  trying to maintain the way we were as much as possible
Choirs, close together, singing loud.  choral ensembles, solos, duets, and such from mid-March through the end of May and the full choir returning June 7 and at least once monthly through the summer
Congregations, close together, singing loud.   have sung 1-3 hymns, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei from March through mid-May and the full Divine Service with 5 hymns since May 24
Ushers shaking hands, touching people as they guide them to the pews or to the altar.  no shaking hands but ushers welcoming people while observing appropriate distance
Pastors handing out the elements from the paten crowded with hosts, laying hands on children who do not commune, touching the hands or maybe the tongues of communicants,  ciborium filled with hosts, blessing children without touching them, communion on the tongue and in the hand since mid-March and still going with numbers ever increasing
Communicants drinking from the chalice, casually wiped with a purificator, the pastor and/or deacon consuming what remains,  continuing the chalice through this with rigorous cleansing by pastor with purificator, consumption of what remains in the chalice by pastors all through this viral pandemic
Congregants hugging one another, talking close together in the pews after the benediction, kids scrambling around from family to family, mothers yelling "Timmy, come back here!", and people generally milling around moving in and out of each other's "space".  well, all ages represented and some kids interacting with their peers but most respecting some distance
Oh, yes, and with masks optional.  yes, masks are optional (and not required by city, county, or state)
Who wants to do that? And let us know in three weeks how it works out.

Well, our two pastors have had as many as 24 services a week through much of the shut down to accommodate 10 at each plus pastor and organist and in May began increasing numbers in worship and decreasing the number of service times and so far not one person in the parish has tested positive or shown symptoms in a city of 250K and a congregation of 300 people in worship (normally) and we have resumed Sunday school and Bible studies in mid-June.  Maybe not what would happen in other places but perfectly appropriate where we are at (northern edge of the South) and perfectly responsible according to the two physicians, one pathologist, two physician assistants, and dozens of RNs in the congregation who have not stopped coming all the way through it.  So, Pastor Austin, are we irresponsible or crazy or faithful?

Gracias ... it sounds like it is possible to trust in God rather than man. Location differs ... without knowing for sure, your area may not have been as hard hit with the virus as Padre Benke’s city.

May God continue to bless your congregation and it’s pastors.

Julio

281

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 10, 2020, 12:51:50 PM »

On May 25, a Black man, George Floyd was murdered by a white police officer in Minneapolis while three other officers watched. His murder sparked protests around the world, also anger and outrage over his killing sparked riots, looting, arson, and other assaults and mayhem.

On June 20, a 19 year old Black man, Lorenzo Anderson was shot and killed in the Seattle CHOP area. On June 29, a 16 year old Black man was shot and killed in the same CHOP area. Where have been the protests and outrage for the murder of these two young men? Where have been the demands for justice? These deaths passed with hardly a ripple. Did their lives not matter because they were most likely not murdered by the police? Should their deaths be allowed to fade from attention because their deaths do not support but even tends to give the lie to the narrative police are an occupying force that brings violence to neighborhoods and that without the police neighborhoods would be safer places where young Black men can live and move about without fear?

Their murders did not become a viral video on the internet. We could also talk about how many people have been shot and killed in Chicago over the last month - and they don't make national news. (I don't even know how many make local Chicago news.)

The New York Times reports on violence in The City.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/nyregion/murders-nyc-guns-crime.html
Just imagine how much safer The City will be next year when they defund the police.

Gracias!  Julio

Bueno, Julio - the way it works in NYC is going to be considerably different from most cities because of the size of the police force.  Several categories included police presence inside schools.  At present that's done by the School Safety Officers under the command of the police.  That was shifted to NYPD from our Department of Education some years back, and will be headed back to the DOE.  That's hundreds of millions of dollars.  School safety officers haven't had weapons at any time.  Additionally monies will be re-allocated towards more community based youth programming and counselors.  The church I serve in Brooklyn hosts the Explorers, which is an NYPD youth program designed not only to keep kids off the streets but to prepare some of them for recruitment to the NYPD.  It's led by NYPD officers in conjunction with the host group, in this case our church. 

Many officers from the "old school" are seeking retirement.  What will happen at the end of the day is that the newer recruits will understand and be trained in different policing methods in conjunction with community servants and institutions.  We will be hosting our neighborhood/sector community meeting with the NYPD again in August. 

Having been part of the crime waves of the 80s and early 90s, with rampant police corruption, this direction is to me both helpful and hopeful.

Dave Benke

I'm all for giving these kinds of approaches a try.  They may well bear substantial fruit.  But part of the solution must also be found in the lessons of the late 1990s, when violent crime in New York plummeted.  I hope and pray that the programs with which you and others are involved bring new and fruitful cooperation between the police and the communities they serve.  But vigilant law enforcement must be part of the equation if those communities are to be protected.  During this current stretch, the new programs are not in place and the police have been pulled back from law enforcement.  The results have not been good as violent crime has spiked.

The program that gained the most attention in the Giuliani era was the attention paid to nuisance issues - the guys who washed car windows on the street corner were given misdemeanor summonses, etc.  In our part of the world, the high crime zone, what the police who weren't on the take would do is stop all traffic at certain areas and then check the license plates for violations like parking tickets, use that as the way to search the car, and take it from there.  So they did that on Sunday from 9-12.  Because the idea was the evildoers were just then coming from the clubs and would be half asleep and fall for the trap.  But - this made it impossible for any of our folks with cars to get to church.  We got them to stop doing that at that time and on those corners, after lengthy negotiations.  We were being punished by a police tactic.

My opinion is that bad guys should be in jail, that gun control is absolutely necessary in a big city connected to strict laws with enforcement on those who violate those laws.  And that's what in my opinion actually drove crime down.  People who had done the bad stuff paid for it.  People who were carrying around weapons without reason paid with jail sentences.  The nuisance stuff was not my favorite at all, because in many cases it just hassled homeless people, of which we have plenty in our neighborhood who mostly need a place to lay their heads at night.

Dave Benke

Not good to keep your saints from their church home ... but there has to be enforcement of parking laws for them to be effective. My city doesn’t enforce graffiti laws ... and it is quite evident .. including all the vulgarities these selfish law breaker use.

Some time ago my neighbor was late to church because his drive way was blocked. Lives are threatened when failure to enforce parking laws encourages law breakers to block driveways and other essential areas.

What will happen to your good Explorer program .. hopefully they will not throw the baby out with the bath water.  If the “old school” retires and is replaced be the “new school” why defund? The remaining good officers as evidenced by your explorer program?

Gracias!

Julio

282

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 10, 2020, 10:46:13 AM »

Let’s get real. Nobody nowhere is  talking about taking all the money away from the police and closing up police departments. Nobody is talking about eliminating police; the conversation is about making them better.

Who is being real about defunding police?? The deliberate absurdity of eliminating the police was introduced by yourself.

Seattle had CHOP ... and its murders and rape in the ‘police free zone’. Defunded police at its best.

One can only wonder what kind of anarchy will be tolerated in Seattle when they defund the police according to this newspaper article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/majority-of-seattle-council-pledges-to-support-police-department-defunding-plan-laid-out-by-advocates/%3famp=1

How many dead Seattle residents will result from their social experiment?

Buenas Noches!

Julio

The masked man rides in again, shooting his silver bullets (toxic replies)!  Hi! Ho! Silver!!!   

Peace, JOHN

‘PEACE’ ... after a toxic statement such as that???

Toxic replies ?? Padre Austin’s ‘eliminate the police’ statement was the toxic off thread comment. I NEVER suggested or used the word ‘eliminate’ ... and simply cited the Times article.

It seems that the toxic reply is attacking a newbie who disagrees with you.  Rather than attempting to discredit the Times article, it is fair game to attack the new guy?  Are you this welcoming to those who visit your congregation? Perhaps this is an example of the abuse handed out by you as a military officer ... and no I would not encourage defunding the military because of your toxic comments.

Maybe you and Padre Staneck should take a lesson in civility from Padre Benke ... his response addressed my post ...not attacked me.

I pray for you!

Julio

283

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 10, 2020, 12:17:43 AM »

Let’s get real. Nobody nowhere is  talking about taking all the money away from the police and closing up police departments. Nobody is talking about eliminating police; the conversation is about making them better.

Who is being real about defunding police?? The deliberate absurdity of eliminating the police was introduced by yourself.

Seattle had CHOP ... and its murders and rape in the ‘police free zone’. Defunded police at its best.

One can only wonder what kind of anarchy will be tolerated in Seattle when they defund the police according to this newspaper article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/majority-of-seattle-council-pledges-to-support-police-department-defunding-plan-laid-out-by-advocates/%3famp=1

How many dead Seattle residents will result from their social experiment?

Buenas Noches!

Julio

284

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 09, 2020, 09:00:00 PM »

On May 25, a Black man, George Floyd was murdered by a white police officer in Minneapolis while three other officers watched. His murder sparked protests around the world, also anger and outrage over his killing sparked riots, looting, arson, and other assaults and mayhem.

On June 20, a 19 year old Black man, Lorenzo Anderson was shot and killed in the Seattle CHOP area. On June 29, a 16 year old Black man was shot and killed in the same CHOP area. Where have been the protests and outrage for the murder of these two young men? Where have been the demands for justice? These deaths passed with hardly a ripple. Did their lives not matter because they were most likely not murdered by the police? Should their deaths be allowed to fade from attention because their deaths do not support but even tends to give the lie to the narrative police are an occupying force that brings violence to neighborhoods and that without the police neighborhoods would be safer places where young Black men can live and move about without fear?

Their murders did not become a viral video on the internet. We could also talk about how many people have been shot and killed in Chicago over the last month - and they don't make national news. (I don't even know how many make local Chicago news.)

The New York Times reports on violence in The City.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/nyregion/murders-nyc-guns-crime.html
Just imagine how much safer The City will be next year when they defund the police.

Gracias!  Julio

285

Your Turn / Re: White Fragility

« on: July 09, 2020, 05:24:21 PM »

On May 25, a Black man, George Floyd was murdered by a white police officer in Minneapolis while three other officers watched. His murder sparked protests around the world, also anger and outrage over his killing sparked riots, looting, arson, and other assaults and mayhem.


On June 20, a 19 year old Black man, Lorenzo Anderson was shot and killed in the Seattle CHOP area. On June 29, a 16 year old Black man was shot and killed in the same CHOP area. Where have been the protests and outrage for the murder of these two young men? Where have been the demands for justice? These deaths passed with hardly a ripple. Did their lives not matter because they were most likely not murdered by the police? Should their deaths be allowed to fade from attention because their deaths do not support but even tends to give the lie to the narrative police are an occupying force that brings violence to neighborhoods and that without the police neighborhoods would be safer places where young Black men can live and move about without fear?

Please do not forget Officer Dorn .. also killed by a black man ... it is becoming clear that the horror expressed by those who despise the statement “All lives matter” is because really only some black lives matter.

Muchas Gracias

Julio