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Messages - Julio

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256
Your Turn / Re: A gentle request on anonymity...
« on: July 25, 2020, 05:09:18 PM »
For those who choose anonymity I plead, you have assumed for yourself a freedom from having to take responsibility for what you post. If you consider yourself Christian, reflect on what Paul has said about abusing the freedom of the Gospel (saved by grace, shall we sin the more that grace may abound?) and apply it to your anonymous freedom. We may not be able to hold you personally accountable, but you still are responsible for what you post. Also consider that even good and necessary points are blunted when expressed without respect for the dignity of others. Those who would demand respect must also give it.
Rev Fienen: One would assume that these words of brotherly advice apply equally to those of us who are not posting anonymously.  It seems that many comments directed towards you and your brotherly advice by assumed named posters are far from Christ like and respecting your dignity. Thank you for your words of civility in spite of the snark and disrespect directed towards you.

257
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 25, 2020, 04:49:55 PM »
Again with the directive imperative with no supporting premise, reasons, points to ponder, etc. 

Antifa is claiming they plan to target a number of cities this evening. Into the mix the Chief of Police for Seattle has warned officers not to engage them as well as communicated to local business owners they are on their own to protect their property. Even if it stopped now, downtown Seattle will never recover. Small businesses will not return. Yet, somehow we "should" be concerned federal officers are protecting federal facilities.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/seattle-police-abandon-residents-antifa-uses-twitter-facebook-organize-nationwide
The Seattle police Chief is not only shirking his responsibility to protect and defend ... but actively encouraging the anarchists.  He sounds like he is encouraging federal intervention if there are federal assets in the area.

258
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 08:57:50 PM »
Julio, I'm as Gay as Gay can be as most everyone on this forum knows. If anyone knows what being "out of the closet" means, it is me. It can mean however many things, depending on its context. I can assure you that Pastor Austin was not using a Gay innuendo. It is the anonymity of some posters that can be bothersome to some here—particularly if the anonymous poster seems only to expend energy putting down others.
Apparently you and others speak Austin lingo better than I ... it’s difficult to understand why he speaks in code.

If ‘putting others down’ is what  correcting factual inaccuracies is called these days, so be it. Is it really offensive to correct error?  Heaven help us if it is.

259
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 08:31:47 PM »
My suspicion is that the closet that Charles suggests that you depart, Julio, is that of online anonymity not of hiding your sexual orientation. Charles hates not knowing who is posting, will sometimes cyber stalk to discover that identity, and then promptly forgets the identity of who posted (even if clearly stated) and attributes posts to whomever occurs to him. Doesn't really matters who posts to him.
Rev Fienen:  Thank you for attempting to explain Rev Austin’s rather bazaar post.  If indeed he is concerned about identity, perhaps he should review forum guidelines against stalking. 

At least twice in the past week he has been forced to knowledge incorrectly attributing forum posts to the wrong forum members.  This evening he again in having to admit that 50 percent of the forum’s top posters are ELCA members ... contrary to a claim appearing at the bottom of each of his forum posts.

Perhaps a bit more care and research should precede his posts ... facts do matter!

260
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 08:12:12 PM »
"further rendering Padre Austin’s ‘factual’ statement more false"

"why does your slander continue"

"your “came out of his closet” appears to falsely accuse me of being  gay"

"Factual statements don’t need explanation and justification ... only falsehoods and lies do"

Your silver bullets are indeed toxic.
Apparently you condone lies, slander and baseless innuendo. What’s your obsession with bullets? Do you really approve of Padre Austin’s gay innuendo directed toward forum members? Your failure to condemn his conduct is repulsive.

By the way .. I own no firearms and therefore no bullets either.

261
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 06:03:58 PM »
Actually, it is the actions one takes because they are incompetent not the incompetence itself which puts people in legal peril.
Unsure where to post this correction to an apparent error, but ...

Padre Austin states “Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. A minority here: of the top 40 posters, fewer than 5 are ELCA. ...”

Being a newbie forum member, I am unsure how to find the top 40 posters .. but finding the top 10 forum posters is easily found and lists as follows ..

 1 B Stoffregen
 3 C Austin
 8 S Tibbetts
 9 Richard Johnson
10 D Charlton

Various posts of these gentlemen seem to indicate that 50% of the top 10 posters are ELCA members.

Unless proven wrong, this casts serious doubt on Padre Austin’s fact gathering abilities since his claim of ‘fewer than 5 of the top 40 posters’ has already been proven incorrect as a result of reviewing only the top 10 posters.

Is this a sign of incompetence? How many of the top posters 11 through 40 are ELCA members .. further rendering Padre Austin’s ‘factual’ statement more false ... if that is possible?

Please correct if the above facts are incorrect.
Here are the top 60 posters. Some are no longer posting. Not many beyond the five you mentioned are ELCA.

Brian Stoffregen
peter_speckhard
Charles Austin
Dave Benke
Dan Fienen
Pr. Don Kirchner
Weedon
Steven Tibbetts
Richard Johnson
DCharlton
David Garner
John Mundinger
Michael Slusser
John_Hannah
Dave Likeness
Harvey_Mozolak
mariemeyer
James_Gale
justified and sinner
D. Engebretson
J. Thomas Shelley
MaddogLutheran
Matt Staneck
Steven W Bohler
Dadoo
Buckeye Deaconess
SomeoneWrites
Matt Hummel
Timotheus Verinus
FrPeters
Eilenne Smith
Jeremy Loesch
Pr. Terry Culler
pearson
Pilgrim
Keith Falk
Steverem
Norman Tiegen
Revjagow
aletheist
WJV
Marshall_Hahn
Bergs
jebutler
Kurt Weinelt
racin_jason
Jim_Krauser
Mbecker
Mark Brown
RDPreus
J.L. Precup
Mike Bennet
pastorg1@aol.com
cssml
RevSteve
Don Whitbeck
mj4
Evangel
paterm
Mel Harris

Thank you for further confirming the inaccuracy of Padre Austin’s claim of fewer than 5 of the top 40 posters are ELCA members.
And if “Julio” came out of his closet, I might, that is might explain my count.
But we digress. Let us allow this distraction to pass.
Padre Austin ... why does your slander continue ... your “came out of his closet” appears to falsely accuse me of being  gay ... I thought you and your church body were far more tolerant than you appear to be here.

Factual statements don’t need explanation and justification ... only falsehoods and lies do.

Interesting that you attempt to reclassify incorrect falsehoods as “distractions” that need to ‘pass’.

262
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 04:58:04 PM »
Actually, it is the actions one takes because they are incompetent not the incompetence itself which puts people in legal peril.
Unsure where to post this correction to an apparent error, but ...

Padre Austin states “Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. A minority here: of the top 40 posters, fewer than 5 are ELCA. ...”

Being a newbie forum member, I am unsure how to find the top 40 posters .. but finding the top 10 forum posters is easily found and lists as follows ..

 1 B Stoffregen
 3 C Austin
 8 S Tibbetts
 9 Richard Johnson
10 D Charlton

Various posts of these gentlemen seem to indicate that 50% of the top 10 posters are ELCA members.

Unless proven wrong, this casts serious doubt on Padre Austin’s fact gathering abilities since his claim of ‘fewer than 5 of the top 40 posters’ has already been proven incorrect as a result of reviewing only the top 10 posters.

Is this a sign of incompetence? How many of the top posters 11 through 40 are ELCA members .. further rendering Padre Austin’s ‘factual’ statement more false ... if that is possible?

Please correct if the above facts are incorrect.

The masked man will uncover corruption. Hi! Yo! Silver!
Nothing said about corruption ... simply confused about apparently false information.

Why your continued mocking of me ... this forum is for the discussion of ideas ... not the mocking and ridicule of those you apparently disagree with.

263
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 04:38:17 PM »
Actually, it is the actions one takes because they are incompetent not the incompetence itself which puts people in legal peril.
Unsure where to post this correction to an apparent error, but ...

Padre Austin states “Retired ELCA pastor. Iowa born. A minority here: of the top 40 posters, fewer than 5 are ELCA. ...”

Being a newbie forum member, I am unsure how to find the top 40 posters .. but finding the top 10 forum posters is easily found and lists as follows ..

 1 B Stoffregen
 3 C Austin
 8 S Tibbetts
 9 Richard Johnson
10 D Charlton

Various posts of these gentlemen seem to indicate that 50% of the top 10 posters are ELCA members.

Unless proven wrong, this casts serious doubt on Padre Austin’s fact gathering abilities since his claim of ‘fewer than 5 of the top 40 posters’ has already been proven incorrect as a result of reviewing only the top 10 posters.

Is this a sign of incompetence? How many of the top posters 11 through 40 are ELCA members .. further rendering Padre Austin’s ‘factual’ statement more false ... if that is possible?

Please correct if the above facts are incorrect.

264
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 12:52:36 PM »
In the original spirit of this thread: Does not the federal government have the responsibility to make sure that federal buildings are protected?  Given the history with police precincts and the current level of violence, are not these buildings in some danger or risk?
It would seem that federal government definitely should and must protect federal properties.  It is tragic that local officials are so spineless that federal property has not been protected.  The idea that breaching barricades and vandalizing federal property is part of a ‘peaceful’ protest s beyond laughable ... Failure to condemn these violent thugs is indicative of the increasing moral decline of our nation.

265
Your Turn / Re: St. Joseph sued by transgender ELCA clergy spouse
« on: July 24, 2020, 12:37:37 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
Fr. Hummel can say whatever he wants, but everything one can say is not helpful.
But go ahead. Take the last word.
Has anyone been able to locate Pastor Fienen’s post that contains the quote Padre Austin has quoted above.  The context of Pastor Fienen’s above statement would be helpful ... if indeed the above are Pr Fienen’s words.
Julio, this time I don't think that Charles intended to quote me but to slam my defense of Matt's standing to be critical of the lawsuit by the ELCA clergy couple. Naturally, his disparagement of Matt is a helpful corrective to Matt's (in his eyes) most unhelpful comment. It is part of Charles's mission here to offer advice and corrective to all of the other churches represented here, heaven knows we all need it. That mission is exclusive to him.
Thank you ... his backwoods methodology of deliberately not utilizing the forum’s quotation function contributes to the confusion currently experienced.

 Since he has recently been caught misidentifying the author of material he attempts to quote, your clarification is greatly appreciated.

266
Your Turn / Re: Protests and Federal Involvement
« on: July 24, 2020, 11:56:32 AM »
Seems to me the federal troops would be the ones ordered to see that the federal buildings are burned down, because it is federal officials who ought to or will be tried in those buildings.
Yes indeed .. your incessant baseless slander of those whom you oppose continues ... it adds nothing to the discussion .. but in your infamous words ‘ Carry on’

If the mayor of Minneapolis is indeed incompetent, and I’m not agreeing that he is, incompetence is not against the law. If it were, the man currently occupying the White House would be occupying a prison cell.
So this is how you pray for those in authority and that we may live a quiet and peaceful life?
Got it!


267
Your Turn / Re: St. Joseph sued by transgender ELCA clergy spouse
« on: July 24, 2020, 11:39:13 AM »
Pastor Fienen:
Fr. Hummel can say whatever he wants, but everything one can say is not helpful.
But go ahead. Take the last word.
Has anyone been able to locate Pastor Fienen’s post that contains the quote Padre Austin has quoted above.  The context of Pastor Fienen’s above statement would be helpful ... if indeed the above are Pr Fienen’s words.


268
Your Turn / Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« on: July 23, 2020, 08:09:53 AM »
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.
Why is that the "important thing,
Local rule ... Right of self determination ... aren’t those concepts what lead to the Declaration of Independence? Neither you or I reside anywhere close to Selma ... both you and I should have far more important issues local to each of us than to worry, posture and/or virtue signaling on issues and decisions that should be made by Selma and Alabama residents.
Somos ciudadenos de los Estados Unidos, hermanito.  Es posible a tener un opinion sobre muchas cosas, incluiendo el nombre propio de una puente en Alabama, o en Wyoming, si hay puentes in Wyoming (yo no se).

Dave Benke

Translation of Padre Benke’s Spanish Diatribe .... We are citizens of the United States, little brother. It is possible to have an opinion on many things, including the proper name of a bridge in Alabama, or in Wyoming, if there are bridges in Wyoming (I don't know).
Padre Benke:  With the following Scripture passages in mind ...

1Cor 14:18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

a translation of your rather inconsiderate diatribe has been provided.  It is rather difficult to understand what possessed your foreign language rant ... my English proficiency is clearly apparent ... you have boasted on numerous occasions that you serve a multi lingual congregation.  This is your second response to me that you felt moved to post in other than your and my native language ... who are you attempting to impress?? Why communicate in a manner that the majority of forum readers are unable to understand? 

It has been almost 10 tears since I visited Wyoming ... one wonders why you would think I would have any opinions on bridges in Wyoming.

Have a good evening!

Julio

I'm sorry visiting Wyoming brought tears - it must have been a difficult trip for you a decade ago.

Dave Benke
Thanks for acknowledging that it has been a decade since I’ve been in Wyoming ... still wondering how it is Christ like for you to ridicule and belittle a brother in Christ over a simple typo .. but carry on ... maybe this is considered Christ like behavior east of the Hudson.🤕

Seńor, ten piedad!

Julio

269
Your Turn / Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« on: July 22, 2020, 11:51:36 PM »
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.
Why is that the "important thing,
Local rule ... Right of self determination ... aren’t those concepts what lead to the Declaration of Independence? Neither you or I reside anywhere close to Selma ... both you and I should have far more important issues local to each of us than to worry, posture and/or virtue signaling on issues and decisions that should be made by Selma and Alabama residents.
Somos ciudadenos de los Estados Unidos, hermanito.  Es posible a tener un opinion sobre muchas cosas, incluiendo el nombre propio de una puente en Alabama, o en Wyoming, si hay puentes in Wyoming (yo no se).

Dave Benke

Translation of Padre Benke’s Spanish Diatribe .... We are citizens of the United States, little brother. It is possible to have an opinion on many things, including the proper name of a bridge in Alabama, or in Wyoming, if there are bridges in Wyoming (I don't know).
Padre Benke:  With the following Scripture passages in mind ...

1Cor 14:18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

a translation of your rather inconsiderate diatribe has been provided.  It is rather difficult to understand what possessed your foreign language rant ... my English proficiency is clearly apparent ... you have boasted on numerous occasions that you serve a multi lingual congregation.  This is your second response to me that you felt moved to post in other than your and my native language ... who are you attempting to impress?? Why communicate in a manner that the majority of forum readers are unable to understand? 

It has been almost 10 tears since I visited Wyoming ... one wonders why you would think I would have any opinions on bridges in Wyoming.

Have a good evening!

Julio

270
Your Turn / Re: The Destruction and Defacing of Monuments
« on: July 22, 2020, 05:45:59 PM »
I think they'll come up with a blend of local, state and national in the end, a major reason being that John Lewis is a native son of Alabama.  The overarching philosophical point that all decisions should be local is one of the reasons for the calls for racial justice reform.  The development of Jim Crow was enabled by local segregation laws and KKK chapters. 

Dave Benke
The important thing is that the decision is made locally ... and apparently ratified by the state since the state originally named the bridge ... without outside interference.

Why is that the "important thing,
Local rule ... Right of self determination ... aren’t those concepts what lead to the Declaration of Independence? Neither you or I reside anywhere close to Selma ... both you and I should have far more important issues local to each of us than to worry, posture and/or virtue signaling on issues and decisions that should be made by Selma and Alabama residents.

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