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Messages - John_Hannah

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31
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: January 01, 2021, 04:24:34 PM »
Questions to ask are where the two statements lead/have led in the study of Sacred Scripture for Roman Catholics and Missouri Synod Lutherans, and how the various magisteriums (in LCMS, the Synod in Convention dealing with doctrinal resolutions, in Catholicism the actual magisterium) have treated those teaching biblical theology as and for the Church. 

Recently the opproprium leveled at Jeff Kloha was a signal to me at least that the two statements are not equivalent when the rubber hits the road. 

Dave Benke

Dave is right on! Roman Catholics today do not have incidents like we have had (Kloha and Becker). We seem not able to avoid the temptation to employ our unique understanding of inerrancy as a weapon against individual pastors and theologians who are perfectly orthodox.

Peace, JOHN

32
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: January 01, 2021, 02:54:44 PM »
So the first section specifically these words: Since the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God, it goes without saying that they contain no errors or contradictions, but that they are in all their parts and words the infallible truth, also in those parts which treat of historical, geographical, and other secular matters, John 10:35.

Iím not hearing the tension here with the CCCís affirmation:

The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures." (Article III, par. 107)

So I guess my suggestion will not be accepted.

Peace, JOHN

33
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: January 01, 2021, 01:42:20 PM »
John,

What are the words in the Brief Statement that you find to be other than the doctrine expressed on the inspiration and truthfulness of Scripture in CCC?

I think the insistence on absolute correctness of historical, geographical details is not an effective apologetic.

Peace, JOHN

34
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: January 01, 2021, 01:06:27 PM »
Baptist Bible?  What about Vatican II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church that also affirm that Scripture is without error (the inerrancy) and infallibile?

Maybe the LCMS should adopt the paragraphs of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that pertain to the nature of Scripture and abandon the the Brief Statement and the 1970's Statement on Scripture. I would favor that.

35
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 31, 2020, 09:56:21 AM »
Baptist Bible?  What about Vatican II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church that also affirm that Scripture is without error (the inerrancy) and infallibile?

But not quite though like the (not one of the Lutheran Confessions) Brief Statement.   ;D

Peace, JOHN

36
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 31, 2020, 08:47:38 AM »
Sometimes it seems to me that the Missouri Synod tries to have a governance like what is perceived as "Vatican style" governance employing what is perceived as "Baptist style ecclesiology" and with a perceived "Baptist Bible."   ;D

Peace, JOHN

37
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 28, 2020, 09:48:53 AM »
The St.Timothy and St. Titus Chapel at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis is the crown jewel
to the Gothic architecture on that campus.  It was a needed addition to make worship
an important part of seminary life.  The former building used for chapel services was not
conducive to truly focus on the worship experience.   It was more of a lecture hall in a
dark and dreary atmosphere.

The chapel should have been built in 1926, like the Senior College (converted to seminary) chapel. If not then,  in the 1960s instead of Luther Tower.

Peace, JOHN

38
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 28, 2020, 09:44:43 AM »
Come to think of it, I would add blunder another to Ed's list--Luther Tower at St. Louis, which was not quite finished at my graduation in 1965. For graduation in the Quad, someone or some group hung a large banner on top with the Hebrew words of Genesis 11:5, "The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which mortals had built." At the time, not a few thought it would have been better to build the chapel instead of the Tower. There is of course a small chapel at the base of the tower, which is no longer used as I understand it.

Peace, JOHN

39
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 28, 2020, 09:03:18 AM »
Here's a different matter to consider: fulfillment of generational goals. I can think of three projects within synod that to my eye appear misguided, not by malice but by lingering expectations from one generation to the next. They are:

Building the Concordia Seminary Chapel
Purchasing Christian Brothers property in St. Louis
Building the library at CTS Fort Wayne

These were all expansionist expenses that would make sense with demographic growth but that appear to be unnecessary for the future population. I'm guessing these were projects driven by the baby boom experience that extended into the future for fulfillment. They now look unnecessary as all talk has turned to consolidation.

I don't mean to be overly critical of folks who wanted these things. Just noting how we need to stay alert and modest when spending on things other than mission work.

I would raise the question: are we planning things now that won't make sense a generation from now, based on demographics?

Ed, exactly what I thought as these plans unfolded. These real estate ventures were not wise at all. (I will grant that it surely was more than a little odd that the 1926 seminary in Clayton did not include a chapel.)

In the case of these seminary expansions, I think there is another dysfunction in addition to the generational lag of one generation fulfilling the dreams of one or more  previous ones. We have placed too much responsibility on our seminaries to form, supervise, and then certify pastoral candidates. I think that role should belong to district presidents. Yes, they are involved now but they do not have final responsibility. They should with support and recommendations from the seminaries.

Peace, JOHN

40
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: December 26, 2020, 08:32:05 AM »
A NY Times Op Ed piece that captures exactly how many Christians feel this year:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/opinion/zoom-church-christmas-covid-loss.html?searchResultPosition=1

Peace, JOHN

41
Your Turn / Re: A Blessed Feast of the Nativity of Our Lord to All!
« on: December 24, 2020, 04:44:34 PM »
TO THIS PART OF THE ALPB COMMUNITY:

The American Lutheran Publicity Bureau began in 1914 only a couple of years before the last great pandemic. Though a fledgling organization we survived the pandemic and World War I due to dedicated leaders who volunteered their time and energy. They built a loyal following of pastors and laity committed to confessional Lutheranism and confessing that faith in every corner of America. Soon we were thriving.

Although we now suffer decline commensurate with our parent Lutheran bodies we are grateful for you our loyal followers. In turn you can be grateful for those who work for the you in the ALPB in so many ways. Editors, authors, administrative hands, and others. They are volunteers; even those who are paid a meager salary are committed volunteers and would not be doing what they do for a secular business at our pay.

May all have blessed Christmass and a fulfilling, purposeful new year.

Peace, JOHN
ALPB Board President

42
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 24, 2020, 10:03:56 AM »
Pastor Clint Schnecloth is a native Iowan who grew up in metro Davenport, Iowa.
He graduated from Luther College, Luther Seminary, and has a Doctor of Ministry
from Fuller Seminary.  He has taken on a number of causes which seek to lift up
those who need the most help in our society. Let me hear an Amen for Iowa
Lutheranism.

AMEN! JOHN (born & raised in Hampton)

43
Your Turn / Re: Important announcement
« on: December 24, 2020, 07:32:35 AM »
I'm cross-posting this for those of you who only read "Your Turn."

Your moderators have been in conversation with the ALPB board about the nature and future of this Forum. We, and they, are concerned about the toxicity of much of the recent conversation. We have discussed various options for improving the quality of interactions. There may be more changes in the future, but for now the following changes will be made effective January 1:
(1) We will no longer permit anonymous posters. You may include your real name (first and last names, please) as your user name, or, if you prefer, you may include your real name as a signature. If the moderators suspect that the name you provide is a pseudonym, we will be contacting you directly to assure that you are who you say you are. If you are currently posting anonymously, please see that you correct that prior to January 1.
(2) We will ask that you restrict your posts to matters related in some way to the purpose and ministry of the church or the challenges of the Christian life. There are plenty of other places to discuss the world of politics. We will allow some latitude here; there are obviously areas where politics and faith intersect, and that intersection is not always entirely clear. But we will not allow political sniping.
(3) As a matter of fact, we will not allow sniping at all. We will be moderating more aggressively. Any post that makes personal attacks on others will be removed, or at least heavily edited; any post that is removed will also lead to the removal of all responses to that post. Persistent violations of this rule will lead to removal from the conversation. Robust discussion is good. Personal attacks are not.
Thatís how things are going to go in the new year. With your help, we hope to get this train back on track.

And while I've said the effective date is January 1, in fact some of these things will be happening sooner. We need to practice a little before we go full bore into it.

Well done, Mr. Moderator. Clear, firm, and gentle.   ;D

Peace, JOHN

44
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: December 23, 2020, 03:57:35 PM »
The seminary in Springfield, IL was quite similar to the SMP today and might have even been less rigorous academically. It was only in the late 1950s-1960s that it changed and required a Bachelor's for admission. It was by the way descended from Loehe.

45
Your Turn / Re: Forum Letter, Jan 2021
« on: December 19, 2020, 10:57:09 AM »
The remaining article by David Charlton, another Online Forum regular, about how his proposed memorial got hijacked is an important consideration as well. Let us not think that this is a problem afflicting only the ELCA. Such manipulation has been going on for years and years in Missouri so much so that now we are down to electing only those selected by an anonymous committee calling themselves the "United List."

All three well done articles call us to consider the possibility of reform.

Peace, JOHN

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