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Messages - John_Hannah

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1
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Inc 2020 Report
« on: Yesterday at 08:31:48 PM »

Don't delay - vote today - to delay. 

Dave Benke

Very nice rhyme. Have you been inspired by that young lady at the inauguration?

Your respectful presbyter, Bishop. Peace, JOHN

2
Your Turn / The Tone of Liturgy in 2021
« on: Yesterday at 11:59:11 AM »
Here is a run-down on the music, hymnody, and texts done at the pre-inaugural liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Matthew. I have been curious but we could see or hear any of it; the media showed only the congregation of and on.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/act-faith-prayers-and-music-bidens-inauguration-day-mass

Does such a liturgy for such a dignitary affect the direction of liturgy throughout the nation? I remember the Kennedy funeral liturgy and think that Cardinal Cushing became a negative example setting in a reaction that might be thought to have culminated in the quintessential guitar mass. This mass is far removed from "guitar." Does it portend a more conservative trend.

(Don't introduce politics here. Only theology and liturgy!)

Peace, JOHN

3
Your Turn / Re: Inauguration Day
« on: January 22, 2021, 05:26:32 PM »
For whom it applies:  Stop contributing to the rapid drift here into politics!   :)

Peace, JOHN

4
Your Turn / Re: Inauguration Day
« on: January 21, 2021, 06:01:27 PM »
This is a matter of trivia. Anybody know what translation or edition of the Bible President Biden used today? I was reported to be 172 (best I can I recall) years old and from his family. It appeared to be very, very old and 5-6 inches thick.

Peace, JOHN


My guess would be the Vulgate. Wasn't that the only Bible for Roman Catholics back then?


Upon further research, the Douay-Rheims Bible is an English translation from the Vulgate that was first completed in 1610. It was revised by Richard Challoner (1691–1781) in the mid 1700s.

Douay-Rheims clearly visible on the spine:

https://i.redd.it/cbls05v19kc61.jpg

Good catch. Thanks. It is what I suspected but I know little nothing about 19th century Irish Catholic culture.

5
Your Turn / Re: Inauguration Day
« on: January 20, 2021, 08:54:18 PM »
I'm not usually a fan of performance versions of the National Anthem, and I barely know who Lady Gaga is. But IMO, she indeed nailed it.

Agree, although I'd still rather be with a bunch of soldiers standing at attention and saluting as an Army band plays.

J-Lo wasn't too bad either. (She grew up on the block next to where I live now in the Bronx.)

That young poet stole the show in my opinion. She was simply magnificent.

Peace, JOHN

6
Your Turn / Re: Inauguration Day
« on: January 20, 2021, 07:57:51 PM »
This is a matter of trivia. Anybody know what translation or edition of the Bible President Biden used today? It was reported to be 172 (best I can I recall) 128 years old and from his family. It appeared to be very, very old and 5-6 inches thick.

Peace, JOHN

7
Your Turn / Re: The Church's Response to Government and Governing
« on: January 18, 2021, 03:40:43 PM »
Is anyone familiar with the argument that the word "indivisible" in the Pledge was written against Southern sentiment of the day that still thought that states had the right to secede from the Union?  I don't know where I heard this or if there is any validity to it.

I have always thought that the reason. I don't believe I heard or learned it from anything or anyone. But then there has not been any other serious attempt to divide.

Peace, JOHN

8
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: January 16, 2021, 07:00:12 AM »
I had no (zero) ill effects, not even slight pain at the site.

Peace, JOHN

9
Your Turn / Re: The Church's Response to Government and Governing
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:03:10 AM »
As I continue to monitor the news I hear that law enforcement is ramping up in anticipation of even more protests and possible violence.  I don't know if it will occur, or if it's just heated online rhetoric, but after last week I understand why they must be proactive this time and prepare for the worst. 

But underneath all this is a seething anger.  And I'm not just referring to the so-called far right.  We saw it last summer in the repeated protests and violence in cities all over the country.  Some encouraged and justified the anger then.  Now it is roundly condemned.  But regardless it remains.

An article from last September by Cal Thomas taps into these questions in "Why So Much Anger?" He notes: "People who are angry at government, instead of looking to Washington, should be looking in the mirror.

There have been injustices as long as humans have walked the Earth. The U.S. government has tried mightily and at great expense to fix them, but most are matters of the heart, not matters for politicians.

If the latter, would not those injustices by now have been solved? While it is possible for government to impose or tolerate immorality, it is close to impossible to impose its opposite. This is the role of churches and of individuals making the right decisions for themselves and their families."


https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/09/17/why-so-much-anger/

Now this was written before the events of last week, but I think that the anger issue is similar.  At its heart is the ability and willingness of people to suffer perceived injustice.  The psalmists cry out "How long?" waiting for vindication from God against their enemies. Even in Revelation we hear a similar cry: "They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” (Rev. 6:10).  God's people have long lived under injustice in a broken and sinful world.

In the spirit of this thread I believe that that the church has a heightened responsibility in the midst of this angry turmoil that has engulfed our nation to call for patience in the midst of injustice, prayer for those who hurt us (Luke 6:28), and intercessions for our leaders to make wise decisions.  We, as the church, are not called to 'fix Caesar,' if I might coin a phrase.  We are not called to push Caesar to do what we want him to do and apply our own political pressure.  We are called to proclaim the Prince of Peace in the midst of a violent and angry world, and if we do not point people to Him, we fail to give real hope. We are also called to live lives of Christ-like love in our own contexts and communities.  It starts there, not in Washington. 

People of faith from the left and the right have too often put their "trust in princes" who "cannot save"(Psalm 146:3).  We have turned away from the transcendent and almighty God forgetting that "when their spirit departs, they return to the ground;on that very day their plans come to nothing." 

Church leaders may choose to call for impeachment and removal of the president.  And if he is removed, which seems a bit unlikely at the moment given the very short time he has left, will we feel that the ongoing anger that flows under our nation will then disappear?  Will we believe that once Trump is no longer there that violence will no longer occur?  Do we believe that Biden is the chosen deliverer that can miraculously calm the troubled waters of a deeply divided nation?

We believe that God has given us the Kingdom of the Left as a First Article gift for our protection. But ultimately it is to God, not princes, that we look in trust. It is to Him that we pray in the midst of an unhealthy anger consuming people from both ends of the spectrum.  Let not the church be consumed with the rest of fallen humanity.

 :) Excellent, thoughtful, and wise.

Peace, JOHN

10
Your Turn / Re: The Church's Response to Government and Governing
« on: January 12, 2021, 07:27:56 PM »
Like so many words or phrases in our modern culture "liberation theology" has become stereotyped, often negatively by conservative Christians, who fantasize that it is a complete theology and that its adherents believe nothing else about God and his revelation. This is bad judgement. In the case of the black church liberation theology most certainly does not mean that "liberation" in this life is all there is. It most certainly is not that for Black Christians who understand Jesus as the Savior who suffered, was crucified, and rose again for us and for our eternal salvation. Liberation theology comes because they honor and worship the God who cares.

And if God cares for the unborn, he cares for the poor and the marginalized by race. If the church can advocate for the victims of abortion, it can advocate for the victims of economic oppression and racial injustice.

Whenever I experience the Black church I never fail to be moved, strengthened by its witness, and genuinely impressed that the Holy Spirit can produce such wealth out from poverty.   :)

Peace, JOHN

11
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: January 12, 2021, 05:59:45 PM »
I got my first vaccine this afternoon. Sunday, I made an appointment online. The clinic is is a mere ten blocks away and very well managed. I got my shot a few minutes ahead of the appointed time, waited the required 15 minutes and moved on. Much more efficient than I expected. Included was an appointment for the 2nd vaccine.

All this on only the second day for the "1B" class where the vaccines are being administered for the first time to the general public. I was surprised at the efficiency and lack of any glitches.

Peace, JOHN

12
Your Turn / Re: The Church's Response to Government and Governing
« on: January 12, 2021, 10:28:18 AM »
Amen to what Bishop/Pastor Benke just said. And I hope my agreeing with him doesn’t hurt his reputation. But sometimes you have to go for rigorous honesty.

I agree and hope that my agreement doesn't hurt Charles' reputation.

Peace, JOHN

13
Your Turn / Re: Civil unrest and Christian witness
« on: January 11, 2021, 10:32:45 AM »
Here's an article written at the beginning of 1963 by Martin Franzmann, prior to the first prominent assassination of the 60's later that year.  It's really a treatise on Christian witness and understanding of the times and our place in them.  In an era before the use/overuse of the Two Kingdoms aspects of Luther's theology, this heads down the catechetical line in which a lot of us oldsters were trained,namely that the all unrest - personal, communal, national, global, creational - comes under our First Article lives, which are, for us, tempered by and seen through the Second Article of the Creed.  As this New Year has crashed and burned already, it's appropriate on January 11:
 https://concordiatheology.org/2021/01/the-new-year-and-all-things/

Dave Benke

As always is the case with Franzman, beautiful words with deep substance. Thanks, Dave.

Peace, JOHN

14
Your Turn / Re: One step forward, maybe?
« on: January 10, 2021, 04:16:17 PM »

Something I read today fits in here.  The Parler removal thing (and I had not heard of Parler before this week personally) by Apple/Amazon is subsequent to Parler having lost a lot of its ultra-conservative base because it had become an echo chamber, with no one participating who was on the other side on issues, until a bounty of like $20000 was raised by Parler to bring others - Democrats? - onto the site so it would be more interesting.  Being paid to have arguments seems to me a sign of the times, no?  "I know what I believe, and I know it's right, but I don't have anyone to shout at."  So somebody pays people to bring people to provide the shouting match. 

Which goes to a point for alpb forum online.  I think we should pay people to argue for let's say a fifteen post back and forth, and then vote on who won.  The alpb board would set up the arguments based on polls and surveys - wearing masks, nuclear war, acceptable pronouns, etc.   We would publish the results, go on talk TV of any kind, and make a good deal of money for ALPB.  Our claim would be that in the 21st century, this is how we do evangelical theology.

 ;D ;D

15
Your Turn / Re: Civil unrest and Christian witness
« on: January 10, 2021, 11:27:54 AM »
A member of my congregation sent me this about a Lutheran church disposing of its property. She had with some concern:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/us/minnesota-asatru-folk-assembly.html?referringSource=articleShare

Peace, JOHN

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