16
Your Turn / Re: I Have a Call
« on: December 23, 2011, 12:12:42 PM »
Congratulations, Pr. Wolf 
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17
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Church Joins the ELCA
« on: December 01, 2011, 12:43:55 PM »
I think the "spin" is more like sales-speak. A person naturally puts the best construction on what they are doing.
Here's the quote in the context of the article:
Missouri Synod Lutherans have gained a reputation for being very conservative, marked by their refusal to ordain women to the ministry and professing a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible. The LCMS District (region), which includes Gilroy, has about 180 congregations with about 33,500 members.
Pastor Ron Koch and the members of Good Shepherd felt they needed to make a change.
"For many years our congregation has been operating, in theology and practice, in a much more open and inclusive manner than allowed by the Missouri Synod," he said. "Holy Communion open to all, ecumenical cooperation and worship, greater inclusion of women and non-discrimination toward gay and lesbian Christians are some of the practical ways this has become manifest."
Another Lutheran body, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, is known for its more progressive stance toward these issues, and the leadership at Good Shepherd began studying the practicality of affiliating with the local Synod (region) of the ELCA, which includes Gilroy and contains 200 congregations with about 56,900 members.
It just sounds a lot better than saying
"For many years, our congregation has been operating, in theology and practice, in open violation of many of the teachings of the Missouri Synod" , which is what I'm sure members of the Missouri Synod are hearing. It reminds me of the ELCA congregations that were ordaining PALMS people when it wasn't yet "legal"--that irritated me, just as I'm sure this irritates the LCMS.
But, the writer himself isn't exactly casting the LCMS in a very flattering light anyway, throwing in phrases like "refusal to ordain women" and "strict, literal interpretation".
That said, I agree that the ELCA is a better fit for that congregation. They should have considered that before they adjusted their practices, but better late than never.
Here's the quote in the context of the article:
Missouri Synod Lutherans have gained a reputation for being very conservative, marked by their refusal to ordain women to the ministry and professing a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible. The LCMS District (region), which includes Gilroy, has about 180 congregations with about 33,500 members.
Pastor Ron Koch and the members of Good Shepherd felt they needed to make a change.
"For many years our congregation has been operating, in theology and practice, in a much more open and inclusive manner than allowed by the Missouri Synod," he said. "Holy Communion open to all, ecumenical cooperation and worship, greater inclusion of women and non-discrimination toward gay and lesbian Christians are some of the practical ways this has become manifest."
Another Lutheran body, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, is known for its more progressive stance toward these issues, and the leadership at Good Shepherd began studying the practicality of affiliating with the local Synod (region) of the ELCA, which includes Gilroy and contains 200 congregations with about 56,900 members.
It just sounds a lot better than saying
"For many years, our congregation has been operating, in theology and practice, in open violation of many of the teachings of the Missouri Synod" , which is what I'm sure members of the Missouri Synod are hearing. It reminds me of the ELCA congregations that were ordaining PALMS people when it wasn't yet "legal"--that irritated me, just as I'm sure this irritates the LCMS.
But, the writer himself isn't exactly casting the LCMS in a very flattering light anyway, throwing in phrases like "refusal to ordain women" and "strict, literal interpretation".
That said, I agree that the ELCA is a better fit for that congregation. They should have considered that before they adjusted their practices, but better late than never.
18
Your Turn / Re: Clergy and the "Occupy Movement"?
« on: November 23, 2011, 12:41:43 PM »jpetty...
Hope you realize that I was quoting Peter Speckhard.
Thewas to express my confusion at what he wrote. My reaction was, "What's this all about?"
I happen to agree with your comment..."Income taxes do a very lot of things, the least of which is so-called 'social engineering.'"
Marie Meyer
My fault. I missed your
As for social engineering, sure, anything you do could be said to be social engineering of one kind or another. I never said there wasn't any "social engineering" in the tax code.
What, exactly, constitutes "social engineering"? The home mortgage deduction? The sales tax?
Social engineering is done via all sorts of taxes, fees, and regulations. Think about the following:
Cigarette tax
It's demographically regressive tax in order to dissuade people from cigarette smoking.
Income Tax deductions
Claiming children, mortgage, filing jointly, etc. All of these are in there for social, not fiscal reasons.
Vehicle license
When I started driving, vehicle license in North Dakota was based on gross vehicle weight (theory being that heavier vehicles are tougher on roads). I was dismayed when I moved to the MN side of the river and found that it was based on vehicle value. ND eventually followed suit.
19
Your Turn / Re: NALC and ELCA BOP relationship severed
« on: November 23, 2011, 12:29:28 PM »I don't see how this helps the ELCA BoP. There is strength in numbers for any pension or benefit plan.
This is most certainly true.
20
Your Turn / Re: Clergy and the "Occupy Movement"?
« on: October 26, 2011, 03:44:26 PM »
My main issue with the Occupy movement, as Pearson posted on page 1, is the lack of proper targeting. Is the issue that CEOs make too much money? If so, which ones? Corporations are evil? Which ones? It can't possibly be all of them.
There are some things that I would agree with. I disagreed with the bank bailout in the first place, so I'm consequently irritated that the execs got big bonuses. But that's the government's fault. I'm disgusted by the purchase of candidates by way of our campaign finance system, but that's the government's fault, not the fault of people who want to influence candidates with dollar signs. I'm disgusted with the idea that we have yet another valueless bubble potentially on the horizon (derivatives) but nothing is done about it. I'm amazed that the Fed doesn't get a regular audit like any other bank. I'm disgusted with the Frankenstein's monster that is our health care system, but it looks like that's only going to get worse in the future because the "health care reform" did little more than add bolts to the monster's neck.
There is a lot to be disgusted with, but I see movements that are too vague as simply using up the steam of public discontent, only to have what's left be harnessed and fed back into the existing system of idiocy.
There are some things that I would agree with. I disagreed with the bank bailout in the first place, so I'm consequently irritated that the execs got big bonuses. But that's the government's fault. I'm disgusted by the purchase of candidates by way of our campaign finance system, but that's the government's fault, not the fault of people who want to influence candidates with dollar signs. I'm disgusted with the idea that we have yet another valueless bubble potentially on the horizon (derivatives) but nothing is done about it. I'm amazed that the Fed doesn't get a regular audit like any other bank. I'm disgusted with the Frankenstein's monster that is our health care system, but it looks like that's only going to get worse in the future because the "health care reform" did little more than add bolts to the monster's neck.
There is a lot to be disgusted with, but I see movements that are too vague as simply using up the steam of public discontent, only to have what's left be harnessed and fed back into the existing system of idiocy.
21
Your Turn / Re: A Frivolous Thread: Football Anyone?
« on: October 23, 2011, 01:58:54 PM »Since I'm a Vikings fan, I'm perfectly happy with any discussion of sports other than football.
As far as teaching children to hit people, what's the big difference between teaching kids self defense techniques within a given context (sport, sparring, etc) or teaching them to tackle people within a different context? Has there been a rash of full-sprint form tackles on random people over the years because of Pee-Wee football?
In every other aspect of life, the "rightness" of behavior is generally considered dependent on the context in which it takes place. This applies to nearly every element of human life, including violence. Sex in marriage is good. Sex between unmarried teenagers in dad's Impala is bad. Teenagers partaking of wine in communion in church is good. Teenagers partaking of wine in dad's Impala is bad. Peeing in the toilet is good. Peeing in dad's Impala is bad. Using violence to defend oneself and others from violent aggression is good. Being the violent aggressor is bad, whether you're in dad's Impala or not.
By the time a child has reached their 4th year, they already know much more about context-appropriate behavior than we often give them credit for. Frankly, I think it's much better to have kids involved in responsible, organized martial arts activities than to have them just randomly trying out Bruce Lee moves on each other without supervision.
I don't think I'm allowed to laugh this much on a Sunday morning.Thanks for this post.
On the way home from the violent sport of football last night, my kids kept comparing the fog rolling in to Chuck Norris or his spirit or some such thing. Kids today have some fascination with Church Norris . . . I don't quite get it since he's before their time. Of course maybe I had better put an end to any talk of him so my kids don't go all Chuck Norris on someone.
The 4th Use of Law is Chuck Norris.
22
Your Turn / Re: A Frivolous Thread: Football Anyone?
« on: October 23, 2011, 01:47:15 PM »Impala's must be really bad cars! Glad I've never been in one!
Travis- who do you think would come out on top in a Viking-Ram game?
Jeremy
I'd say Vikings by 3 in overtime. My logic is that since the Vikings don't know how to play a second half, overtime would seem like a new game, and they'd suddenly be able to play again.
23
Your Turn / Re: A Frivolous Thread: Football Anyone?
« on: October 23, 2011, 02:05:37 AM »
Since I'm a Vikings fan, I'm perfectly happy with any discussion of sports other than football.
As far as teaching children to hit people, what's the big difference between teaching kids self defense techniques within a given context (sport, sparring, etc) or teaching them to tackle people within a different context? Has there been a rash of full-sprint form tackles on random people over the years because of Pee-Wee football?
In every other aspect of life, the "rightness" of behavior is generally considered dependent on the context in which it takes place. This applies to nearly every element of human life, including violence. Sex in marriage is good. Sex between unmarried teenagers in dad's Impala is bad. Teenagers partaking of wine in communion in church is good. Teenagers partaking of wine in dad's Impala is bad. Peeing in the toilet is good. Peeing in dad's Impala is bad. Using violence to defend oneself and others from violent aggression is good. Being the violent aggressor is bad, whether you're in dad's Impala or not.
By the time a child has reached their 4th year, they already know much more about context-appropriate behavior than we often give them credit for. Frankly, I think it's much better to have kids involved in responsible, organized martial arts activities than to have them just randomly trying out Bruce Lee moves on each other without supervision.
As far as teaching children to hit people, what's the big difference between teaching kids self defense techniques within a given context (sport, sparring, etc) or teaching them to tackle people within a different context? Has there been a rash of full-sprint form tackles on random people over the years because of Pee-Wee football?
In every other aspect of life, the "rightness" of behavior is generally considered dependent on the context in which it takes place. This applies to nearly every element of human life, including violence. Sex in marriage is good. Sex between unmarried teenagers in dad's Impala is bad. Teenagers partaking of wine in communion in church is good. Teenagers partaking of wine in dad's Impala is bad. Peeing in the toilet is good. Peeing in dad's Impala is bad. Using violence to defend oneself and others from violent aggression is good. Being the violent aggressor is bad, whether you're in dad's Impala or not.
By the time a child has reached their 4th year, they already know much more about context-appropriate behavior than we often give them credit for. Frankly, I think it's much better to have kids involved in responsible, organized martial arts activities than to have them just randomly trying out Bruce Lee moves on each other without supervision.
24
Your Turn / Re: The political process: Does it need repair, or should we even care?
« on: October 22, 2011, 02:32:34 PM »
Obviously, things always need repair and general upkeep. I agree that the Senate should be representative of states as a whole rather than another populist body. This is the same reason that we still need the electoral college. When the state governments are limited in their ability to check Federal power, then our system needs repair. I also think that we need massive campaign reform. As the costs of election campaigns go up, the need to raise funds goes up, and the degree to which candidates are influenced by those contributing goes up. Consequently, the most effective voters become those who can spend the most money on a candidate. I think major campaign finance reform combined with term limits would go a long way to returning the power to the actual voters.
After that, we can do an actual independent audit of the Fed (like real banks have), and see what kind of mess we have on our hands there.
After that, we can do an actual independent audit of the Fed (like real banks have), and see what kind of mess we have on our hands there.
25
Your Turn / Re: George Erdner hits the bigtime.
« on: October 19, 2011, 02:41:21 PM »
Good job, George!
Btw...I LOVED the Robot Chicken Star Wars.
Btw...I LOVED the Robot Chicken Star Wars.
26
Your Turn / Re: Are mormons Christian
« on: October 10, 2011, 06:49:12 PM »
Not Christians. Same with the Jehovah's Witnesses.
27
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Church-International Oct-Dec 11 Newsletter
« on: October 05, 2011, 06:00:45 PM »
The answers to a lot of these questions are probably rattling around in the heads of a lot of older clergy who aren't very heavily represented here. By that, I mean the more low-church, pietistic denominations. From what I remember, the ILF was started in the late 60s and the aforementioned Pr. E. Edward Tornow was the president of it for many years. The initial purpose of it was to foster cooperation in various ways across the northern border. I know Pr. Tornow had a bible camp out by Sheyenne, ND. I don't believe that it was initially much more than an association of congregations that might have other affiliations (in that sense, more like the LCMC). I know nothing beyond that.
As to what happened with it, in the 80s or otherwise, I'm definitely not qualified to answer. If anybody knows any CLB (or possibly AFLC) clergy who served in North Dakota in the 70s or 80s, they'd likely know a lot more.
As to what happened with it, in the 80s or otherwise, I'm definitely not qualified to answer. If anybody knows any CLB (or possibly AFLC) clergy who served in North Dakota in the 70s or 80s, they'd likely know a lot more.
28
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Church-International Oct-Dec 11 Newsletter
« on: October 01, 2011, 04:50:06 PM »
Maybe rather than griping about an underdeveloped website, it would make more sense to directly accuse the ILF of being an IRL-esque charade. Then it's not just the mere implication of deceit, it's a direct accusation.
If you're going to break the 8th, you might as well do it with a big hammer.
If you're going to break the 8th, you might as well do it with a big hammer.
29
Your Turn / Re: Strange Email Forwarded from ALPB Forum/Saltzman
« on: August 24, 2011, 05:06:08 PM »
I got it in my Gmail. Perhaps the Google people figure I could use the money.
30
ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2011 / Re: Tuesday morning: Bishop's report
« on: August 16, 2011, 04:48:24 PM »
"Queer Potential" strikes me as the title of a lost Rick James song. Not sure why.