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Messages - Charles Austin

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Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 27, 2021, 01:20:58 AM »
Peter writes:
I think a restaurant or bar should be allowed to allow smoking, and those who don’t want to breath second hand smoke don’t have to go there.
I comment:
I have seen ads for "Cigar bars," where those seeking that kind of ugliness can find it.
But your view is short-sighted. Many would choose to go to the smoke-filled bars or restaurants, put up with the smell, and - ta da! - be made sick by the second-hand smoke. Workers, too, might make the hard choice - like working in a coal mine - and be made sick. The result is a public health problem. Again, the smoke affects not only the smoker, but in public places, it affects others.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 26, 2021, 03:47:50 PM »
Peter writes::
The topic was not about vaccines specifically but about shutdowns, which Charles claimed were no big deal. Parents should just fix childhood trauma. Businesses should just go out of business. It is that easy, and a small price to pay for making him feel safer.

I comment:
I did not say it was no big deal. I did say that parents have to deal with what their children face no matter what it is that the children are facing. Life, death, pandemic. These years facing that is part of parenting.
And I did not say that businesses should “just“ go out of business. They need to adapt. And we as a society need to do what needs to be done to help them. This was done, through – OMG! No! – Government relief action. That’s another way we help our neighbors. My son was laid off early on. The aid the government provided was invaluable in helping him to get through the last two years and plan for the future. Without the additional unemployment benefits and extending unemployment he and millions of others would have been in very dire straits.
This is not to “make me feel safer,” Peter, and for you to say that is a personal insult.
As noted somewhere upstream, these efforts to mitigate the impact of the pandemic are those drawn up by our best public health experts. Our best. Not people with no knowledge of medicine, epidemics, or public health. Furthermore, these are people whose jobs it is to protect public health. We pay them to do that. You can find others, and you can dismiss our paid experts (and the researchers and doctors who advise them) if you wish. But I think that would be a foolish thing to do.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 26, 2021, 11:00:38 AM »
Am I clear on this? You would rather people get Covid than have businesses shut down? You would rather have people get Covid than go through the difficulties of schools being closed? Did I get that right?

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 26, 2021, 10:17:16 AM »
"Science" evolves, changes as knowledge expands, Peter.
But you are mixing that truth with the clear idiocies of those with wacko conspiracy theories, Internet-espoused "remedies," and denial of what are basic facts - the effectiveness of the vaccine, the number of deaths, the difference between infections and the deadly aspect of the virus, the politicizing of every mitigation.
So some little kids might be traumatized or miss out on some school lessons because of the shutdown? Parents, wake up and deal with the trauma. Schools, find ways to make it up. It's better than spreading the illness. And if the shutdown was unnecessary, so what?
So businesses suffer because of vaccine requirement? Well, you can't sell food without meeting health standards, so businesses will just have to adapt.
And as for the Evil Of All Evils - that is, "the government is over-reaching and telling me to do something I don't want to do" - grow up. I don't want to wear a seat belt or have to take a test to drive a car.

Your Turn / Re: Christian response to Rittenhouse trial
« on: November 26, 2021, 10:10:45 AM »
Peter writes:
….from the Rittenhouse verdict to the Waukesha massacre to Arbery verdict has really been a story about the failure of law enforcement to enforce the law. In every case, officials refused to let police enforce the law and lawlessness prevailed. If the police and national guard arrest rioters in Kenosha and keep them in prison until things quiet down instead of watching the riot from behind a police line,…. 
I comment:
Have you ever been in or near such a situation, Peter? Often, and police in the big cities will tell you this, immediate and strong “enforcing the law” is certain to lead to a bigger riot and more deaths. Having the cops roar in with their military gear, armored cars and hi-grade weaponry is not the answer, nor is just grabbing everyone on the site and cuffing them. Those actions are not deterrents to others, they are incentives. Those doing criminal things can be arrested later, found through investigations, video surveillance and other means. Yes, (and OMG! No!) this means that more windows will be broken and more goods stolen. Are those windows and goods more important than the lives that would surely be lost?

Peter writes:
Soon someone will have had enough of smash and grab shoplifting and there will be a deadly encounter. It will not be clear what happened but there will be casualties and contested verdict about whether whatever happened was justified.
I comment:
It has already happened. Newark in the 1960s and 70s.

But it won't really be the vigilante's fault; you can only ask someone to allow themselves to be victimized for so long before they take matters into their own hands. And it won't even be entirely the shoplifters' fault. You can't keep telling people that the system is rigged against them, them shoplifting it really just a matter of getting even, and that shoplifters won't be prosecuted and expect them to resist temptation indefinitely.
See above. At the time of a destructive riot, determining “fault” is a secondary concern. Restoring peace is the primary concern. Those stealing can be prosecuted (and, Oh my! How terrible!) not all of them will be caught. But to simply say “enforce the law;” that is, have the cops attack and arrest is not the answer.
BTW. those being "victimized for so long before they take matters into their own hands" applies to a large number of those you call "rioters." Are you willing to admit their frustration?

…if Wisconsin extradites a wanted criminal to Nevada where he faces serious charges instead of repeatedly arresting him and releasing him on bail when he is a known bail-jumper, if the police in Georgia don't allow the same construction site to be robbed and/or vandalized a half dozen times without doing anything, none of this headline grabbing stories ever happen.
You can’t just blame failures in the bureaucracy without knowing the complexities of each individual case. And whether a site is vandalized a half dozen times or 43 times, that is still no excuse for private vigilantes to stand watch or roam the neighborhood and act on their untrained suspicions without actual knowledge of a crime.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 26, 2021, 09:12:23 AM »
In case I haven’t already made it clear, I don’t believe in screaming at individuals, yelling “you’re a fool! You’re selfish! You don’t care about others!“
I’m all for gentle persuasion. I’m also for society as a whole making that persuasion as effective as possible, and sometimes that means leaving the gentle part behind.
Repeat: you won’t hear me yelling at individuals. But you will hear me talking about the various segments of our population that refuse the vaccine, spread erroneous information about the vaccine, and otherwise impede the expansion of the protection the vaccine certainly provides.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 25, 2021, 08:17:28 PM »
For heaven sake’s, Mr. Rustad. I’m not speaking to any of those people here. Furthermore, I’m not trying to convince them of anything. Most of the time, arguing with a fool, while it can be amusing, doesn’t change anyone’s mind.
And I stick with my previous conclusion. Someone links up for a movement or follows a person on one item, and after a time that person is “all in” and has a cultist’s warped sense of “right” or “truth” or “loyalty.” I’m not saying that has happened to everyone here. I’m just saying that certain things can take hold of an otherwise “wise“ being.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 25, 2021, 04:50:09 PM »
Sometimes, Peter, the when one says “I don’t understand,” the meaning is actually “I do understand and I’m so shocked at what I understand thatI don’t know how the other person can believe this.”
I understand when someone is swayed by or drawn into a cult or a semi cult. I have known such people, and I understand What with them under the spell or into the cult. But when I say I do not understand them, it means that I do not understand how a person such as they, reasonably intelligent, reasonably well educated, can come to such stupid conclusions and do such stupid things.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 25, 2021, 04:35:58 PM »
Pastor Fienen:
Especially if you already know that you are more knowledgeable and wiser than those fools and could not possibly be wrong. Must be nice to be so knowledgeable that you can totally ignore any possibility that the people upon whom you rely for information might be wrong.

I am indeed wiser than some fools. So are you, Pastor Fienen.  If the people I rely on for information happened to be wrong, and of course I have made the decision that they are not wrong, then my efforts to mitigate the impact of the virus may not accomplish anything. And I will have gone to a bit of trouble but may not have been necessary.
But if the fools are wrong, and of course I believe they are, then their foolish refusal to mitigate the effects of the pandemic can have a grave impact upon themselves and the lives of the people around them.
But I have said that before.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 25, 2021, 03:33:33 PM »
Peter, folks might be faithful, loving, and wise, but not on every single topic. With regard to the virus in the vaccines, they might still be exceedingly foolish.
Furthermore, I need not be tolerant of other peoples decisions who might actually affect my ability to resist the sickness and not die.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 25, 2021, 04:32:47 AM »
Thank you, Dana Lockhart. I was trying to cut and paste the portions of that interview which debunked the “they didn’t really die from Covid” myth, but it got too complicated. Read the whole interview and the CDC Interpretation of the data. If anything, the number of deaths is under-reported.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 24, 2021, 10:52:16 PM »
That is the point. The numbers are not exaggerated. You dismiss the “94%”. But they would’ve lived on, perhaps not healthy, but alive, had it not been for this virus.
To attempt to remove their death from the total statistics is curious,if not atrocious, if not obscene. They are all our neighbors who died of the virus, often because it had not been taken seriously, efforts to mitigate its affects were mocked or ignored , or people followed stupid advice..

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 24, 2021, 06:15:16 PM »
You are trying to tell me that only 6% of those 750,000 people actually died of Covid?
Given the numbers discussed everywhere, including the conservative and wacko conservative media, I don’t see how I can believe that.

Your Turn / Re: Fear Is Deadlier Than Viruses
« on: November 24, 2021, 05:06:26 PM »
See my comment over on that other thread. Do you not understand that those people with that “comorbidity“ would not have died from it have they not contracted the virus?
I don’t get your purpose. Or, what I do get about it I find obscene

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: November 24, 2021, 05:04:17 PM »
Peter, I understand that you are posing for the sake of your argument. But it’s not the least bit convincing.
Pastor Bohler, I’m ignoring you again. Life just isn’t worth the irritation of dealing with your intentional and overreaching pretenses. I think you may be taking them as wittiness, but you’re wrong about that too.
But for the moment, I’ll consider what you posted. Hey people! Guess what! There were not 746,000 deaths from Covid. They were only 735,000 deaths from Covid. The other 11,000 only died with Covid. Isn’t that great?

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