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Messages - GalRevRedux

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76
Your Turn / Re: Lay Lectors?
« on: November 04, 2017, 04:26:47 PM »
What an impressive thread this is. The true hearts of many are revealed in vibrant reality.

I have experienced (in St Louis, my first call) the awkwardness of being introduced to a Pastor at a meeting who turned his back rather than shake my extended hand.

I have been called a “priestitute.”

I was stonewalled by a Pastor as we shared an elevator at a hospital and I had the gall to say “Hi.” He gratefully fled the elevator before I had the chance to imprint the Mark of the Beast on him, poor boy.

This all happened 34 years ago. I see there is little or no change.

I will just say that I do not ever try to change the minds of those who are “painfully polite” to me ::) Real feelings and opinions are more obvious than some of you might realize. I might be a girl but I am not blind or stupid.

Sometimes the line between being right and being arrogantly self-righteous is blurred.

I would be happy to post my preaching schedule for any of you who fear you might be in geographical proximity to me, so you don’t accidentally find yourselves in a place with a pastorette  preaching, which might scar you for eternity.

While I am not surprised by the statements of some in this forum, I am still saddened by the attitudes reflected herein. It’s like hearing about the Weinstein scandal - every woman is acutely aware that this stuff goes on, but we are still saddened when confronted with it.

Donna
Practicing priestitution since 1983





77
Your Turn / Re: Stories of Unheralded Saints
« on: October 20, 2017, 10:44:40 AM »
I Sing a Song of the Saints of God
The United Methodist Hymnal Number 712

Text: Lesbia Scott
Music: John H. Hopkins
Tune: GRAND ISLE, Meter: Irr.

1. I sing a song of the saints of God,
patient and brave and true,
who toiled and fought and lived and died
for the Lord they loved and knew.
And one was a doctor, and one was a queen,
and one was a shepherdess on the green;
they were all of them saints of God, and I mean,
God helping, to be one too.

2. They loved their Lord so dear, so dear,
and his love made them strong;
and they followed the right for Jesus' sake
the whole of their good lives long.
And one was a soldier, and one was a priest,
and one was slain by a fierce wild beast;
and there's not any reason, no, not the least,
why I shouldn't be one too.

3. They lived not only in ages past;
there are hundreds of thousands still.
The world is bright with the joyous saints
who love to do Jesus' will.
You can meet them in school, on the street, in the store,
in church, by the sea, in the house next door;
they are saints of God, whether rich or poor,
and I mean to be one too.

The first song I learned in Children’s Choir at St. Andrews in Chicago. My hidden saints would include the Girl Scout leader who made sure I got to Sunday school and worship every week, and the Junior Choir Director - wife of our pastor - who taught me so much about church music.

Donna

78
Your Turn / Re: Reforming Catholic Confession
« on: September 17, 2017, 03:46:41 PM »
Blessings to you, Donna, and I respect and think I sort of understand your journey.
But on the subject of deceased equines, I simply note that  many folks here and elsewhere seem to want to slap their theological sticks on critters that haven't galloped for centuries.
Nonetheless,  cheers and thank you for noting that many of us are quite happy in the ELCA.

Stewball and I thank you.

 ;)

Donna

79
Your Turn / Re: Reforming Catholic Confession
« on: September 17, 2017, 03:35:08 PM »
Then tell me precisely, Donna, why you and the others in the NALC left us. I do not mean you to take my statement "the NALC is the ELCA without gay pastors," 100% seriously, but isn't there something to that?

Hi Charles,

The sexuality decisions of 2009 may have been a major precipitating incident leading to the formation of the NALC, but it was the process upon which those decisions were predicated that led many of us to cut ties. I was a voting member that year, and the message I heard repeatedly was (from the study of sexuality) "We can't reallly find anything in Scripture that endorses homosexual relationships as normative," but then we were resoundingly told "but God is love, so we need to do the loving and popular thing and change our policies."

This degree of cavalier disregard for the Scriptural teaching - in many matters, not only sexuality - led some of us to seek a church body where Scripture would be held in higher and more consistent regard.

I never, ever envisioned myself leaving the ELCA. It was not about sex. I thrive in a church body that emphasizes Scripture, discipleship, and missions. That works for me, I guess. I am glad that the ELCA still is the right place for so many friends and former colleagues.


Did you have the same opinion when back in 1970 there were those who essentially said: "We can't really find anything in Scripture that endorses the ordination of women as normative," but since in Christ there are no males and females, we will change our policies and ordain women?

Also said back then and in 2009 were statements like, "We don't find the ordination of women prohibited by scriptures" and "We don't find homosexual marriages and ordination of homosexuals prohibited by scriptures".

Well, I was in high school then, so I am afraid I didn't follow the conversations that closely at the time.

I believe there are significant differences and that Scripture does indeed prohibit homosexual relationships. At the very least, it does not bless them.

There is a spectrum of women in leadership throughout the OT and NT.
I understand the problems some others have with the "WO"  decisions and how they were made. I try to be respectful.

I have no idea, Brian, why you feel the need to go into adversarial mode with  this. I didn't come here to pick a fight or get schooled by you. I merely wished to share the Confession of Faith of my denomination and my feeling that it is  more than just "we are not the ELCA." I am not arguing with you and Charles, and I am - shockingly - not unaware of the controversies over women's ordination. Can we let that dead horse remain unbeaten today???

Donna

80
Your Turn / Re: Reforming Catholic Confession
« on: September 17, 2017, 02:44:54 PM »
Then tell me precisely, Donna, why you and the others in the NALC left us. I do not mean you to take my statement "the NALC is the ELCA without gay pastors," 100% seriously, but isn't there something to that?

Hi Charles,

The sexuality decisions of 2009 may have been a major precipitating incident leading to the formation of the NALC, but it was the process upon which those decisions were predicated that led many of us to cut ties. I was a voting member that year, and the message I heard repeatedly was (from the study of sexuality) "We can't reallly find anything in Scripture that endorses homosexual relationships as normative," but then we were resoundingly told "but God is love, so we need to do the loving and popular thing and change our policies."

This degree of cavalier disregard for the Scriptural teaching - in many matters, not only sexuality - led some of us to seek a church body where Scripture would be held in higher and more consistent regard.

I never, ever envisioned myself leaving the ELCA. It was not about sex. I thrive in a church body that emphasizes Scripture, discipleship, and missions. That works for me, I guess. I am glad that the ELCA still is the right place for so many friends and former colleagues.

Donna

81
Your Turn / Re: Reforming Catholic Confession
« on: September 17, 2017, 09:02:17 AM »
Furthermore, such "confessions," in my not-so-humble opinion, are often designed to "correct" or to "purify" or to "exclude," and I'm not sure that is always a good idea. What is the "error" perceived that requires this "new" thing? Who will be excluded? (Those alleged to be "Liberals", perhaps?)
A perhaps far too simple example from recent years: The "44" in the LCMS and subsequent LCMS confessions like the "statements" on scripture of the early 1970s.
The statements by those forming the NALC and LCMC say - in essence - "We're not the ELCA" or "We don't ordain partnered gay people" or "We won't commune with Reformed" or "No bishops for us!"
As I have said here frequently, I favor cooperation and fellowship even though on some things - for example, sexuality, bishops, the historicity of Adam and Eve - we may not confess precisely the same words. Drawing too many lines or building too many walled cities, I believe, hurts the church and hinders the proclamation of the Gospel.

Why, thank you, Charles, for an excuse to look again at our NALC Confession of Faith. To me, it says many things that are more important than "We're not the ELCA!"

You know that I support you and enjoy your insights as much as anyone around here, Charles, but your dismissive attitude towards my denominational confession of faith - one of our foundational, constituting documents - is troublesome to me. It is not some random confession of faith, rather an important statement of the foundation and reason for our church body to be formed. I append it below.

Donna
The North American Lutheran Church confesses:
The Triune God — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and the Gospel as the power of God for the salvation of all who believe.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God incarnate, through whom everything was made and through whose life, death, and resurrection God fashions a new creation.
The proclamation of God’s message to us as both Law and Gospel is the Word of God, revealing judgment and mercy through word and deed, beginning with the Word in creation, continuing in the history of Israel, and centering in all its fullness in the person and work of Jesus Christ.
The canonical Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the written Word of God. Inspired by the Holy Spirit speaking through their authors, they record and announce God’s revelation centering in Jesus Christ. Through them the Holy Spirit speaks to us to create and sustain Christian faith and fellowship for service in the world.
The canonical Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as the inspired Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of its proclamation, faith and life, “according to which all doctrines should and must be judged.” (Formula of Concord, Epitome, Part I)

The Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds as true declarations of the faith of the Church.

The Unaltered Augsburg Confession as a true witness to the Gospel, acknowledging as one with it in faith and doctrine all churches that likewise accept the teachings of the Unaltered Augsburg Confession.

The other confessional writings in the Book of Concord, namely, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Smalcald Articles and the Treatise, the Small Catechism, the Large Catechism, and the Formula of Concord, as further valid interpretations of the faith of the Church.

The Gospel, recorded in the Holy Scriptures and confessed in the ecumenical creeds and Lutheran confessional writings, as the power of God to create and sustain the Church for God’s mission in the world.

The NALC honors and accepts The Common Confession (2005) included below, as a summary of teachings otherwise affirmed in the Lutheran Confessions.

The Common Confession
(The faith statement of Lutheran CORE – Coalition for Renewal. Adopted: November 2005)
 
CC1) The Lord Jesus Christ

We are people who believe and confess our faith in the Triune God — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We trust and believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.

CC2) The Gospel of Salvation

We believe and confess that all human beings are sinners, and that sinners are redeemed by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. God alone justifies human beings by faith in Christ — a faith that God creates through the message of the Gospel. As ambassadors for Christ, God uses us to speak his Word and build his kingdom.

CC3) The Authority of Scripture

We believe and confess that the Bible is God’s revealed Word to us, spoken in Law and Gospel. The Bible is the final authority for us in all matters of our faith and life.

CC4) A Common Confession of Faith

We accept and uphold that the Lutheran Confessions reliably guide us as faithful interpretations of Scripture, and that we share a unity and fellowship in faith with others among whom the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached and the sacraments are administered in accordance with the Gospel.

CC5) The Priesthood of All Believers

We believe and confess that the Holy Spirit makes all who believe in Jesus Christ to be priests for service to others in Jesus’ name, and that God desires to make use of the spiritual gifts he has given through the priesthood of all believers.

CC6) Marriage and Family

We believe and confess that the marriage of male and female is an institution created and blessed by God. From marriage, God forms families to serve as the building blocks of all human civilization and community. We teach and practice that sexual activity belongs exclusively within the biblical boundaries of a faithful marriage between one  man and one woman.

CC7) The Mission and Ministry of the Congregation

We believe and confess that the church is the assembly of believers called and gathered by God around Word and Sacrament, and that the mission and ministry of the church is carried out within the context of individual congregations, which are able to work together locally and globally.

82
Your Turn / Re: Trinity Seminary and Capital University to Re-unite
« on: September 15, 2017, 10:52:59 AM »
@Donna (aka GalRevRedux)

You will have to forgive me, as I was speaking from an LCMS background.  Our National Convention
gave a mandate in 1975 at Anaheim as the delegates voted to close Concordia Senior College, Ft. Wayne.
They also voted to move the Concordia Seminary, Springfield to the Ft. Wayne campus of CSC.  As a voting
delegate to that Convention I was an eye witness to a heavy-handed mandate.

My point of reference was that no recent ELCA Assembly mandated the merger of Philly and Gettysburg.
A 20 year old recommendation is not considered a mandate in the LCMS. 

P.S.  May Lovie Smith bring good luck to the University of Illinois football team

I figured Dave Likeness was basing his reaction to the merger on the glacial and/or highly politicized Missouri Synod processes of change/merger for their higher education enterprises.  And I was right!

On the other hand, from the perspective of the Land to the North, the Badgers will continue to maintain their dominance over the Fightin' Illini, no matter who's coaching.

Dave Benke

It is far,, far too early for any gloating from the denizens of the Orange and Blue. However, there are glimmers of hope on the horizon!

83
Your Turn / Re: Trinity Seminary and Capital University to Re-unite
« on: September 15, 2017, 10:51:48 AM »
I saw some mandatees in Florida last January. Lumpy, slow-moving critters.

If you mean manatees, we did travel over to Clearwater in February to see them. Beautiful, docile creatures.

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/swimming-manatees-near-clearwater-12670.html

Sorry, I created this one. I should never attempt to out-wordsmith the wordsmith !!! (I know that isn't a verb, either!)

84
Your Turn / Re: Trinity Seminary and Capital University to Re-unite
« on: September 14, 2017, 08:43:32 PM »
@Donna (aka GalRevRedux)

You will have to forgive me, as I was speaking from an LCMS background.  Our National Convention
gave a mandate in 1975 at Anaheim as the delegates voted to close Concordia Senior College, Ft. Wayne.
They also voted to move the Concordia Seminary, Springfield to the Ft. Wayne campus of CSC.  As a voting
delegate to that Convention I was an eye witness to a heavy-handed mandate.

My point of reference was that no recent ELCA Assembly mandated the merger of Philly and Gettysburg.
A 20 year old recommendation is not considered a mandate in the LCMS. 

P.S.  May Lovie Smith bring good luck to the University of Illinois football team

Well, brand-new mandates are not considered mandates if the parties involved (the mandatees?) don't want to cooperate. I guess what I meant was that when this kind of thing was mandated, it got lip service and window dressing instead of meaningful action. But our Board and the Philly board had a very nice joint retreat in Harrisburg. So there is that.... ;)

Thanks for the good wishes -- we hope Lovie can lead our program a bit closer to the Promised Land... whatever that may be!!! 

85
Your Turn / Re: Trinity Seminary and Capital University to Re-unite
« on: September 14, 2017, 04:33:14 PM »
It is heartwarming to see a Lutheran denomination solve their downsizing of seminaries
without any mandates from a Church-wide Assembly.  It is  tremendous that seminary
Presidents can take the initiative do what is best for the church-at-large.  Philly will now
eventually be  absorbed into Gettysburg and be called the United Seminary.

Really? Because it seems to me that the "Study of Theological Education," approved by the 1995 Churchwide Assembly, had called for consolidation of seminaries and redefining responsibilities among the seminaries. "Clusters" were formed, and all kinds of warm and fuzzy cooperation and innovation were supposed to follow.

(At the time, I was serving on the Board of the Division for Ministry of the ELCA as well as the Board of Directors of Gettysburg Seminary.)

My experience was that this became a process of territorial entrenchment and heightened competition.

If the theological education leadership of the ELCA is finally moving into a realistic incorporation of necessary change, God bless them. 20 years ago, that opportunity was passed up.

Donna

PS here is the link to that original study: https://www.ats.edu/uploads/resources/publications-presentations/theological-education/2000-theological-education-v36-sup.pdf

86
Your Turn / Re: Martin Luther: The Idea That Changed the World - on PBS
« on: September 13, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
We enjoyed the show more than we expected to.

Wondered if anyone else observed the interchangeability of the terms "chastity" and "celibacy" in the script? A pastor friend and I mused about this on FB, and a UCC colleague commented that she thought the terms were indeed interchangeable in Luther's day. I disagreed -- wonder what you all thought.

Donna

87
Your Turn / "'E Pluribus Unum Deus'": Out of Many, One God"
« on: June 28, 2017, 08:39:35 AM »
A new article in Living Lutheran magazine online reflects on the ecumenical efforts on a grassroots level by ELCA congregations.  I place the link below, hoping it is workable for all.

My interest was tickled by the title of the article which I have used for this thread. Personally, I find it unfortunate. (The title, that is)

The article is part of background for a draft inter religious statement to be presented at the 2019 Assembly.

Donna

https://www.livinglutheran.org/2017/06/e-plurus-unum-deus-out-of-many-one-god/

88
Your Turn / Re: Which ALPB Forum Father Has The Most Children?
« on: June 09, 2017, 07:52:46 PM »
As we begin to prepare our hearts and minds to celebrate another Father's Day,
it would be interesting to know which dad on this forum has fathered the most
children.  May wife and I have only one daughter.   So, who is the father on this
modest forum with the most children?

Dave:

The above prompts me to ponder why a similar question was not asked prior to Mother's Day.

My Dad was a profound influence in my life.  Words cannot express the role he played in shaping my identity as a daughter of our Heavenly Father. The question I ask in no way diminishes the importance of fathers.  I suspect my late father would also ask, "Why was a similar question not asked prior to Mother's Day?" He may have been ahead of his times, but the mutual partnership he had with my mother inclined him to think of parenthood as shared by mother and father rather than in terms of how many children he fathered.

Marie
The above prompts me to ponder  --  Why didn't you ask a similar question prior to Mother's Day?

In old-timey Mother-Daughter Banquets and the like, there used to be recognition of the most prolific mothers, the oldest mother present, the one who had traveled the furthest to attend, the one with the most grandkids, etc. Thankfully, that awkward practice has fallen by the wayside.

This exchange led me to recall that old practice, and to reflect that, in my experience, (and this is a sweeping generalization) women delight in the relationships with their kids, regardless of number. Apparently from this thread, men enjoy celebrating the number of arrows in their quivers.

I think Marie's question was perfectly acceptable. I just don't think women necessarily think of asking such a thing, realizing what an awkward and painful question that is for many women.

And I know I could be very wrong on that, it is just my thought.

And I speak as a stepmother, which is a whole other world of parental awkwardness.

Donna
Stepmother of 7, step grandmother of 21, step great grandmother of 7 going on 9. Just sayin'

89
Your Turn / Re: Reflection on the 50th
« on: May 27, 2017, 01:57:04 PM »
Thanks for your reflection, Charles. I am near the 34 year mark, and wonder if we can ever manage to all gather as your class did - ignoring our differing paths. But, as is said in other arenas - thanks for your service!

Donna

90
Your Turn / Re: Lenten Message from NALC Bishop John Bradosky
« on: March 14, 2017, 03:01:18 PM »
Thanks for sharing this with the board, Eileen. It is indeed a worthwhile reflection!
Donna

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