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Messages - Pilgrim

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Your Turn / Re: The ELCA version of the Creed
« on: August 19, 2016, 02:14:23 PM »
Dave: the only potential salvific advantage to clergy attire on the golf course is to wear a particularly "heavy" pectoral cross. It helps in keeping the head both steady and down!!!  ;)

Your Turn / Re: Marty Haugen's "Mass of Creation"
« on: April 27, 2016, 09:45:54 AM »
Marty was a classmate of mine in college. Personally, I've enjoyed his creativity. Having said that, I think the more important observation is "the music often ages poorly". Due to modern technology, we have the ability here to utilize multiple musical settings of the liturgy depending upon season, etc. The folks here find that it keeps the Ordo "fresh" and are quite familiar with each of the multiple settings we utilize.

Realizing that some music, in fact, "does age poorly", for me is an indication to always think liturgically in the "macro" sense - truly honoring and treasuring that which has long preceded my service and being constantly aware of what might sustain and enhance the ministry of those who will come after me, likely, long after me (should the Zombie apocalypse people be in error!).

An additional note is time of life: I am more deeply moved by the Nunc Dimities, in a variety of melodies, at this stage of my life than I could have ever imagined when I was in my 20s or 30s. I keep that in mind when exegeting my congregation in terms of our liturgy.


Pr. B.A. "Tim" Christ, STS

Your Turn / Re: Did you know that George Strait is LCMS?
« on: February 26, 2016, 01:01:07 PM »
Unless it has changed recently, he lives in The Dominion subdivision just north of SA off of I-10. My oldest son and family live in a subdivision across the highway and said there was talk George might be moving out to Cordillera Ranch outside of Boerne. Concordia Lutheran is not very far from where he lives. My wife and grandson usually attend there when they are heading to Camp Chrysalis at Kerrville since it times out about right for leaving early out of Houston, attending worship, grabbing lunch and arriving at Camp Sunday afternoon at about the right time. Large well-known congregation in San Antonio.

Your Turn / Re: The Latest Thing in Theological Education
« on: January 15, 2016, 12:32:13 PM »
Or Trinity in Columbus, OH... or Southern in Columbia, SC

I'm sure it would come as quite a surprise to the folks living in the Bexley Mansions that Trinity was in an unsafe neighborhood! A bit to the west and south, perhaps, but unless the demographics have changed dramatically since I was there... just saying"!

The critique of the elevation of the autonomous self has been going on for quite a long time, long before same-sex marriage was the cause of the day.  I was going to say at least since the 1970s, but I think it has been longer than that.

I would suggest you consider Genesis 3 as the primal source (sic)!

Your Turn / Re: Chapel at Concordia St. Paul
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:44:20 PM »
What planet do you live on, Peter? Can you tell me any public controversy where the "side" who refuses to say anything gets its point across or wins any respect? (Unless the point is "We're secretive nut cases." But even they will be found out eventually.)

Charles, I might refer you to the scene in Matthew's Gospel, "But He gave him no answer, not even t5o a single charge, so that the governor was greatly amazed."   :D

Your Turn / Re: Why is the forum broken?
« on: October 21, 2015, 06:46:20 PM »
Mine is all messed up on Safari...

Your Turn / Re: The Refreshing Wisdom of Bishop Elizabeth Eaton
« on: October 20, 2015, 11:21:12 AM »

Whenever Charles does what he has done in the past few posts, I'm always reminded of the following quote from G.K. Chesterton: “Tradition means giving a vote to most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.” Methinks it sounds like far too often our New Jersey scribe falls into the latter grouping of said quote.

Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Church of Australia Rejects Ordination of Women
« on: October 05, 2015, 06:09:54 PM »
One of the pluses which is contributing to this issue is the fact that more and more parishes are celebrating weekly Eucharist, and, if there are not ordained retired clergy able to fill in for vacations, etc., it becomes problematic. It has been well over 20-years since I have conducted a worship that was not fully Word and Sacrament. The people I serve expect Word and Sacrament every Sunday. I've been fortunate to have some retired Pastors in the area most of my ministry, although there has been those rare occasions when the Eucharistic portion of the Sunday worship is "borrowed" from the occasional service of sharing the Eucharist with the homebound so that the faithful gathered are fed. Which side of the road does one wish to err on becomes the question. I may be wrong, but I tend to err on providing Word and Sacrament, but assuring that the elements have been consecrated the Sunday prior and are reserved for the vacation Sunday that follows.

I don't know the long history, but Zion was ALC in the pre-ELCA days. I had interviewed there years (and years and years) ago (or so it seems!)  ;D

Pr. B.A. "Tim" Christ, STS

Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 06, 2015, 02:44:04 PM »
People, I am quite serious here.
     I strongly fear that the reaction to the legalization of same sex marriage threatens to drive more wedges between groups in our country. Yet when I put the question here, all I get, every doggone time!, is "well, they said some nasty things about us." OK, we get that; and they should stop saying such things.
     But what will you - yes, you - people in this modest forum, do in the situations I cited above? Because they will happen. Your children will have friends with gay and married parents. Your neighbors and community leaders will be such people. The pastor of the church next door may be such a person.
     They will be professing Christians, singing in their church choirs, helping in the ecumenical food bank, reading the lessons at the community Thanksgiving service.
     Do you consider what impact your rhetoric about "order of creation," or scripture or morality or "tradition" or marriage or God will have on your community and your ability to relate to people in that community and work with them?
     And the "nones" or non-churched?
     What will you do?

Tim simply notes: Charles questions are consistently "anthropocentric". Charles defense of the ELCA is consistently "anthropocentric". Until the good Lord is the subject and gets the verbs, and we - whoever that "we" may be, it is all really quite irrelevant, is it not?

Your Turn / Re: Ecclesial Sloganeering
« on: June 24, 2015, 01:24:59 PM »
Actually, I rather value St. Thomas Aquinas. Why, how can one dislike a man who could express this so clearly:

"Nevertheless, sacred doctrine makes use of these authorities [the fathers] as extrinsic and probable arguments; but properly uses the authority of the canonical Scriptures as an incontrovertible proof, and the authority of the doctors of the Church as one that may properly be used, yet merely as probable. For our faith rests upon the revelation made to the apostles and prophets who wrote the canonical books, and not on the revelations (if any such there are) made to other doctors. Hence Augustine says (Epis. ad Hieron. xix, 1): "Only those books of Scripture which are called canonical have I learned to hold in such honor as to believe their authors have not erred in any way in writing them. But other authors I so read as not to deem everything in their works to be true, merely on account of their having so thought and written, whatever may have been their holiness and learning."--St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologia, Part 1, Question 1, Article 8

Would that Rome had always remembered that!

Tim adds, Thank you Will ... and I would add it would be helpful for us to always remember that even when dealing with Luther, Walther, Neuhaus, etc., etc. as well. Ofttimes it appears that among us of the Lutheran stripe, some of our "fathers" carry more weight than Scripture as well.

Your Turn / Re: Bruce Jenner and Rachel Dolezal
« on: June 22, 2015, 11:58:03 AM »
Having perused this exchange, I can only smile, chuckle and say, "Peter, Scott - you're not in Kansas anymore!" Echoes of Rod Sterling and the Twilight Zone rumble through the mind! Mr Anonymous - your verbal attempts at sleight of hand are, frankly, downright laughable.

Your Turn / Re: "Liturgical Dance? Really?"
« on: June 05, 2015, 02:49:38 PM »
Nice non-answer answer, you sly reporter you!

Your Turn / Re: "Liturgical Dance? Really?"
« on: June 05, 2015, 02:45:50 PM »
Just to correct myself, apparently this occurred in Metro NY, not North Carolina. Be that as it may, I, too, would be interested in just how Charles would "defend" this is the midst of the worship of God's people, not within a local parish that may have wandered from the tracks, but within an entire Synod Assembly! If the good folks of Iowa with whom you were raised would have been exposed to such a thing 40-years ago, can you even imagine the riotous response? Is this "progress" in any constructive sense of the word for Christian witness and the Kingdom to which we have been called to serve?

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