Messages

466

Your Turn / Re: ELCA Membership Numbers

« on: August 03, 2006, 02:49:30 PM »

If the bottom number on the graph was 0 and the top was 5.3 million, you're very right that the line would only go down slightly.  However, it would also be hard to read or interpret.  All he did was set the Y range for 5.3 million max (1987) and 4.85 million min (today's number, I guess) so that the graph is easier to read and interpret.  By doing that, you're simply able to see graphically that there has been a steeper decline from ca. 2001 until the present.

There is nothing deceptive -- it's just easier to read that way.  But you do need to know what a graph is and what numbers to look at.

Umm...no. "Easier to read" in not a primary consideration when presenting statistical data, and in fact, Pr. Austin is quite correct in pointing out that this graph (deliberately?) distorts the x-axis.

A more realistic graph would use a 0 - 5.3 million x-axis and then display only the top 4-5.3 million portion. That would then accurately portray the trend, including the steeper decline in the years following 2001.

467

Letters to the Editors / Re: ELCA spending

« on: December 24, 2005, 09:35:46 AM »

If you go to the individual unit sites, you will find what you are looking for, I think. I know the new starts are listed for the last couple of years on the EOCM site, and I think the missionaries are listed on the GM site.

468

Selected Re-Prints / Re: Issues for a Dissenting Lutheran Synod (July 2

« on: August 26, 2005, 07:19:47 AM »

I'm willing to bet that that is why that provision is in the ELCA Canons; not to force departing congregations to leave the ELCA with only the clothes on their backs as is the clear intent (at least to me) of the ECUSA's Dennis Canon.

I suspect you are right, though dissolution is different than departure. If a congregation leaves the ELCA, generally they keep their property unless they affiliate with a non-Lutheran church body. This (departure) is what Charles may be thinking, as there are differences between the former ALC (and AELC) and LCA congregations when it comes to leaving the ELCA. Former LCA congregations need the permission of their synod council in order to leave and retain title to their property.

469

Selected Re-Prints / Re: Issues for a Dissenting Lutheran Synod (July 2

« on: August 25, 2005, 09:23:19 PM »

Lutheran polity - generally - does not; although in former ULCA/LCA congregations, the property and all probably belong to the Synod if the congregation disbands or otherwise ends its ministry. That is not true for all ELCA congregations.

Actually, Charles, you should read Chapter 7 of the Model Constitution for Congregations more carefully.

Title to UNDISPOSED property passes to the synod upon dissolution and it matters not at all whether the congregation was LCA, ALC, or AELC.

470

ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2005 / Re: Sexuality amendments

« on: August 21, 2005, 03:25:51 PM »

I notice on your websites, Irl, that you hold a Th.D. on one site and a D.D. on another site. Perhaps you hold both. However, I do not see any degree in science as you claim. What degree in hard science do you hold and from what university?

As to the young earth creationist claims, I would only point out that there are still people who believe in a flat earth and that the moon landing was a hoax.

471

ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2005 / Re: Sexuality amendments

« on: August 21, 2005, 11:01:30 AM »

Dinosaurs?  Of course they existed.  Either they did not survive the flood ( my humble opinion, )... <snip>

Though I am a trained scientist with an earned doctorate, ... <snip>

So as a "trained scientist" you believe that dinosaurs and homo sapiens co-existed? Really?

I find that astonishing.

472

ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2005 / Re: Conference of Bishops Recommendation 2

« on: August 18, 2005, 04:12:55 PM »

Unfortunately, the reality is we may not know anything until after the Conference of Bishops meeting in early October. That may be a bit long to wait for a newsletter article! <g>

473

ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2005 / Re: Conference of Bishops Recommendation 2

« on: August 16, 2005, 05:10:51 PM »

Anybody hear from the Conference of Bishops? I understand that some were going to take up the issue of whether or not Recommendation 2 included blessing same-sex unions under the guise of pastoral care.

They decided not to issue a letter or statement. I don't have all the details yet, but it was conveyed to me by one of the bishops that they are not anywhere near of one mind on what to say.

474

ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2005 / Re: Sexuality--and a Startling Parliamentary Move

« on: August 12, 2005, 07:32:07 PM »

Tomorrow they're supposed to carry rocks around as a sign of the "stumbling block" of Christ's radical inclusivity and as a derision of Solid Rock's "folly."

An intersting quirk...during the debate today at one point a youth speaker make the point that good soil was better than solid rock since nothing grew from rocks. At the end of the plenary session, on all the video screens a picture of flowers growing out of a rock was projected!

I'm reasonalbly sure it was a coincidence.

475

Selected Re-Prints / Re: A One-story Preview (August 2005)

« on: July 13, 2005, 05:50:10 PM »

Without getting approval through the process, there will still be discipline for pastors who violate our standards.

Let's see...there is no discipline now, but there will be if this recommendation passes? Oh, please, Brian, pull your head out of the sand.

476

Letters to the Editors / Re: LCMS (and ELCA) Distinctions

« on: September 02, 2004, 11:56:20 AM »

Uh...Lou Smith?