Messages

1

Your Turn / Re: Great Thanksgiving as Confession of Faith

« on: April 14, 2023, 10:17:55 PM »

In my opinion, the doctrine of the Trinity becomes a lot more personal when we ask ourselves, "How is God present and active in my life?"  Then, I think of the Trinity more in terms of verbs than nouns - God continuously at work creating, redeeming and sanctifying me.

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Your Turn / Re: Adam and Eve

« on: February 24, 2023, 06:43:03 AM »

How about "none of the above".  I'd opt for the divine creation v. evolution debate is a false dichotomy, perpetuated by theologians practicing bad theology and scientists practicing bad science.

There is one important point on which Lutherans and scientists are in agreement - creation is continuous process.  As we confess in the first article of the Apostle's Creed - "I believe that God made me and all creatures...".

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Your Turn / Re: Not peace but a sword

« on: August 09, 2022, 11:20:23 AM »

There is great risk in using texts like this to draw distinction between those who belong and those who aren't.  I think the text should be taken more personally than that.  But, that makes us uncomfortable because the refiner's fire keeps trying to separate us from the comfort zone associated with our sinful nature.

That said, I think the following ought to be the Hymn of the Day for Sunday.  https://www.indievisionmusic.com/articles/song-of-the-day-john-ylvisaker-the-truth-comes-out/

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Your Turn / Re: Laws against fornication and adultery?

« on: May 30, 2022, 03:35:06 PM »

That's the goal of the Disinformation Board, isn't it?

I'm not convinced that it is.  But, that really wasn't the purpose for my post.  Perhaps I should have asked whether, if the intent is to criminalize fornication and adultery, we should be consistent and insist that doing so includes adultery in the heart.  Quite honestly, I think the suggestion to criminalize fornication and adultery bears false witness to the Lutheran understanding of sin and grace.

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Your Turn / Re: Laws against fornication and adultery?

« on: May 30, 2022, 12:21:55 PM »

[/quote]


We have some, e.g., when under oath, or advertisers making false claims about their product. Some celebrities have won lawsuits against publications who printed lies about them.
[/quote]

In the context of this conversation, laws against bearing false witness ought to be much more comprehensive than that.  And, while we are at it, it ought to be a felony to covet!

6

Your Turn / Re: Laws against fornication and adultery?

« on: May 30, 2022, 10:29:56 AM »

Perhaps we should start with laws against bearing false witness.

7

Your Turn / Re: The Ethics of General Milley

« on: September 15, 2021, 06:02:49 PM »

How might the attached quote apply to this situation?

Anyone who has worn the uniform knows that, as difficult as it might be in real time, military personnel have a duty to disobey unlawful orders.  I have not yet read Woodward's latest book.  However, references to similar events as reported in "I Alone Can Fix It", suggest that Milley was prepared to disobey what he perceived to be unlawful orders.

8

Your Turn / Re: Fixing systemic racism

« on: June 04, 2020, 06:25:49 PM »

It can be safely said that Dr. Walther was on the wrong side of American
history during the Civil War.

It can also be safely said that, at least in this matter, he was on the wrong side of AC 16.

How so? I don't recall that scriptures declares slavery to be a sin. It's not an issue of obeying God rather than human beings.

Scripture might not declare slavery to be a sin.  But, Scripture is very clear that all of the Law is summed up in the commandments to love God and love neighbor.  How is it possible for slavery, especially as practiced in the country, to be consistent with the Law of Love?

9

Your Turn / Re: Fixing systemic racism

« on: June 04, 2020, 06:12:29 PM »

It can be safely said that Dr. Walther was on the wrong side of American
history during the Civil War.

It can also be safely said that, at least in this matter, he was on the wrong side of AC 16.

10

Your Turn / Re: Fixing systemic racism

« on: June 04, 2020, 05:59:56 PM »

During the Civil War, Dr. C.W.F. Walther of LCMS fame, favored slavery.
He is reputed to have said that he had no choice because he lived in
Missouri which was a pro-slavery state.  He believed that he had to obey
the laws of government under which he lived.

I don't think the REformers would have approved of Walther's rationale.

11

Your Turn / Re: A Big Difference Between LCMS & ELCA Pastors

« on: June 22, 2018, 10:24:52 AM »

I don't care.  It's relevant to what Pastor Loesch said.  I was replying to him, not to you.

It may be your opinion.  I suspect that it would be difficult to substantiate with facts because I doubt that few, if any, NALC pastors have applied to attend any of the ELCA seminaries, even though many of those who already hold an MDiv likely graduated from one.

12

Your Turn / Re: A Big Difference Between LCMS & ELCA Pastors

« on: June 22, 2018, 10:14:56 AM »

How does simply calling someone a liar advance the discussion, Pastor Kirchner?

It's pretty simple strategy.  If you cannot credibly refute a factual statement with which you disagree, belittle the person who made the statement.

I believe that the LCMS and ALC were then in altar and pulpit fellowship.  Pr. Kirchner may have been reacting to Pr. Stoffregen's omission of this relevant fact.

If that's the case, he should have said that and it is still no justification for belittling Pr. Stoffregen.

Relative to the post that I made, LCMS and ALC were NOT in altar and pulpit fellowship in 1960, but I suspect that, had he been a student then, Pr. Stoffregen's experience would have been similar.  Also note that the LCMS at one point entered into altar and pulpit fellowship and then withdrew would be another demonstration of the argument that I made, i.e. LCMS dogmatics has not been a constant.

13

Your Turn / Re: A Big Difference Between LCMS & ELCA Pastors

« on: June 22, 2018, 09:48:58 AM »

How does simply calling someone a liar advance the discussion, Pastor Kirchner?

It's pretty simple strategy.  If you cannot credibly refute a factual statement with which you disagree, belittle the person who made the statement.

14

Your Turn / Re: A Big Difference Between LCMS & ELCA Pastors

« on: June 22, 2018, 09:29:11 AM »

I was one of three ALC members attending Concordia Jr College, Portland, 1969-1971. We received communion with the LCMS students.

Brian,

That probably is your most intellectually dishonest statement of 2018.

On second thought, strike the word "intellectually."

What is your basis for concluding that his statement is dishonest?  May we then presume that you were his classmate at Concordia Portland and witnessed his exclusion from communion on campus?

15

Your Turn / Re: Recent Lutheran Schisms (LF Summer 2018, M. Granquist)

« on: June 22, 2018, 07:44:38 AM »

However, both the Good Soil folks on one side and CORE/Word Alone on the other insisted on a yes/no answer and, unfortunately, when you play by Robert's Rules, yes/no are the only choices.

Curiously, those who are quick to apply a hermeneutic of suspicion and deconstruction to Scripture and to the Lutheran Confessions are unwilling to cast similar aspersions upon Robert's Rules.

Shows what is considered the ultimate and unquestionable authority.

If I had the authority to re-write the model constitution, I would burn Robert's Rules and insert "Getting to Yes" as the standard for decision making.  It is disheartening that we, as church bodies, look to Washington D.C. rather than Matthew 18 as the standard for working together as the Body of Christ.

And, as a footnote, I think all of us are prone to put more confidence in our own hermeneutic and prone to hear the Spirit in the words spoken by those with whom we disagree.  In the abstract, we acknowledge that we rely on faith because human understanding is inadequate to grasp the reality of God and how God works in our frail lives.  But, in practice, we are prone to assume that we have solved the puzzle.  We really do need to reframe our difficult conversations in ways that are more consistent with our confession.