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Messages - Harry Edmon

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76
Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 07, 2015, 07:07:22 PM »
If THEY believe they are violating their own religiously informed conscience, that is enough for me, provided it is clear it is not a pretext.
To what extent is "consistency" a legitimate test for pretext?  As I have already noted, a Lutheran Christian whose religiously informed conscience would prohibit him from baking the cake would also have to conclude that his religiously informed conscience would prohibit him from refusing to bake the cake because that would mean that he did not love his neighbor as himself.
Or does he refuse to bake the cake because he loves his neighbor as himself and sees providing a cake as harming his neighbor?
Beat me to it.  The bolded text above indicates a bare assertion.  Can one person dictate to another what the latter's religiously informed conscience "would have to" prohibit and allow?  That sounds like the exact opposite of "freedom of conscience" to me.
That was my point.   How do anyone know the person's motivations unless they state them?   The catechism tells us to explain everything in the kindest way.   A lesson I have to continually relearn.

77
Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 07, 2015, 06:41:06 PM »
If THEY believe they are violating their own religiously informed conscience, that is enough for me, provided it is clear it is not a pretext.

To what extent is "consistency" a legitimate test for pretext?  As I have already noted, a Lutheran Christian whose religiously informed conscience would prohibit him from baking the cake would also have to conclude that his religiously informed conscience would prohibit him from refusing to bake the cake because that would mean that he did not love his neighbor as himself.
Or does he refuse to bake the cake because he loves his neighbor as himself and sees providing a cake as harming his neighbor?

78
Your Turn / Re: "Less Room in the LCMS Brotherhood"
« on: July 07, 2015, 03:10:22 PM »
Has anyone read the new CTCR report "In Christ All Things Hold Together: The Intersection of Science & Christian Theology"?    It is very applicable to this discussion.  I am about half way through and I think it is an excellent report.   So does my son, who has a Ph.D. in Astrophysics.

Of course, I don't really think it will change anyone's position, but miracles do occur!

79
Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 06, 2015, 02:30:09 PM »
The main source of the conflict in this case are the 5 justices of the SCOTUS who, just as in the case of Roe vs Wade, decided to short circuit the legislative process and legislate from the bench by coming up with a decision via eisegeting the US Constitution.  Not the first time the court has done it (both liberals and conservatives), and it won't be the last time.   But that does not make it right.

      Right or wrong Mr. Edmon, it does make it the law.
VERY BAD LAW.

80
Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 06, 2015, 02:29:18 PM »
The main source of the conflict in this case are the 5 justices of the SCOTUS who, just as in the case of Roe vs Wade, decided to short circuit the legislative process and legislate from the bench by coming up with a decision via eisegeting the US Constitution.  Not the first time the court has done it (both liberals and conservatives), and it won't be the last time.   But that does not make it right.


It does make it law.
So was the Dred Scott decision.   Still does not make it right.

81
Your Turn / Re: Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide
« on: July 06, 2015, 12:08:42 AM »
The main source of the conflict in this case are the 5 justices of the SCOTUS who, just as in the case of Roe vs Wade, decided to short circuit the legislative process and legislate from the bench by coming up with a decision via eisegeting the US Constitution.  Not the first time the court has done it (both liberals and conservatives), and it won't be the last time.   But that does not make it right.

82
Your Turn / Re: "Less Room in the LCMS Brotherhood"
« on: July 04, 2015, 05:56:40 PM »
Please note that Dr. Becker said the latest charges by President Forde, and the ones that eventually resulted in his being removed from the Synodical Roster, had to do with his views on creation in Genesis 1-3 and his support of evolution and not his views on women pastors.   But most of the discussion here seems to be on women pastors.   Of course he was out of step with LCMS doctrine (and Scriptural and Confessional doctrine in my opinion) on creation, evolution, and women pastors.

83
Your Turn / Re: "Less Room in the LCMS Brotherhood"
« on: July 02, 2015, 10:46:56 PM »
The following was posted by T.R. Halvorson on the BJS website.   Since it is public I felt it was appropriate to post here:

The Rev. District President Terry Forke, of the Montana district, sent this email to Pastors and lay delegates of Montana District:
Quote
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I am writing to inform you that the case of Dr. Matthew Becker, (on which so much time was spent at our convention), has been brought to a conclusion. President Linnemann decided to suspend him, and Dr. Becker writes, in the blog post cited below, that he will not appeal the suspension.

Since Dr. Becker has made it public, (in this blog post) I am now free to clarify matters, about which I could not speak at the convention. I am the one who brought charges against Dr. Becker, but, due to confidentiality issues, I could not reveal that. For the past 27 months I have been working with President Linnemann and Dr. Becker at trying to bring Dr. Becker to repentance. I know that some of you were concerned about whether anyone had actually talked to either or both of them. I did spend hours with both of them separately and together. I went through Genesis 1-3 verse by verse. I addressed specific confessional texts. I want to assure you that every effort was made to deal gently, yet forthrightly with the brother. I did ask him to repent, face to face. In addition we carried on conversation through numerous letters and emails.

Knowing all this, and knowing that you were really struggling with trying to do the right thing, made the convention a very emotionally difficult time for me. I believe the convention made wise and pastoral decisions, two of which, 5-03 and 5-04 are now moot. Nonetheless, through those resolutions you made the good confession that the Word of God is true, and that the false confession must be confronted.

Earlier today I wrote both Dr. Becker and President Linnemann. I will be praying for their strength of faith and their commitment to the confession of the true Word of God as found in the Lutheran Confessions. I ask that you do the same.

“There is no other name, under heaven, given among men, by which we are to be saved.”

PS At this point, (Betty has this information in her computer), I cannot contact the lay delegates to the convention. I would appreciate it if you would give a copy of this letter to your delegate. Thanks.

In His Service,

Terry Forke
President Montana District LCMS
Pastor, Trinity Harlowton

“Let us hold fast the confession of our faith without wavering for He who promised is faithful” (Hebrews 10:23)

“Therefore everything in the Christian church is so ordered that we may daily obtain full forgiveness of sins through the Word and through signs.” (Large Catechism)

84


I don't understand the fourth resolve: decline attempts to require
licensed lay deacons to enter the specific ministry pastor program (SMP) when
this would restrict, hinder, or stop on-going Word and Sacrament ministry
.  It seems to be contradictory to cite the on-going ministry of Word and Sacrament as that is not the call of deacons, but rather ordained pastors.  The ministry of the diaconate is word and service.
I have been to at least five Northwest District conventions.   I long ago gave up expecting this district's conventions to make theological or practical sense.   They are usually a train wreck, and this one was no exception.

85
Your Turn / Re: LadyLike Living Biblically
« on: June 20, 2015, 02:08:33 PM »
I nominate this thread for "worst ALPB thread of the year".   I am sure there will be stiff competition.

Dr. Edmon, might I ask why a thread on a CPH book by two LCMS women, endorsed by President Harrison and suggested by Professor Peter Scaer as a book men give their wife or girl friend, mother or daughter would be nominated as "worst ALPB thread of the year?"

Is the worst thread nomination related to mention of the book, how the discussion has progressed or the book itself?

Marie Meyer

The discussion.

86
Synodical First VP Mueller was at the Northwest District convention.   He has been heading up a task force about Licensed Lay Deacons that was authorized at the 2013 synodical convention.    He told us the report from the task force will be released in July.  The Northwest District refused to wait for the report and sent in its own overture to the Synod about Lay Deacons.  In the end it will be up to the 2016 synodical convention to make any final determination after considering the report and any overtures on the subject.

What does this overture from the Northwest District say?
Basically keep things as they are.  Here are the resolves:

RESOLVED, that the Northwest District in convention affirm and encourage District circuits
and congregations to continue the use of Licensed Lay Deacons (LLD) in ministry
settings, to extend the function of the local pastoral office; and be it further

RESOLVED, the selection, training, supervision, and service of the LLD within the Northwest
District be held to the highest standards of accountability and adherence to the
Guidelines for the Licensed Deacon Ministry, and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Northwest District in convention respectfully decline attempts to restrict
or cancel district-authorized ministries served by licensed lay deacons under the
supervision of ordained pastors; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Northwest District in convention respectfully decline attempts to require
licensed lay deacons to enter the specific ministry pastor program (SMP) when
this would restrict, hinder, or stop on-going Word and Sacrament ministry in our
local congregations and mission areas; and be it further

RESOLVED, that we rejoice together and give thanks to God for equipping His Church both
with the means of Grace and dedicated, called, and trained workers, both lay and
ordained, who faithfully and passionately reach people in their communities with
the good news of Jesus Christ, and be it further

RESOLVED, that delegates to the 2015 Northwest District convention rise to thank the Lord of
the harvest for the many gifts and blessings He has bestowed on our
congregations and local ministries through the dedicated and faithful service of
supervised licensed lay deacons; be it finally

RESOLVED, that the Northwest District Convention memorialize this resolution to the 2016
LCMS convention.

From what Mueller said the Task Force report will directly contradict resolved 4.   Instead the Task Force recommends that Lay Deacons go through a colloquy process and be ordained as SMP.   But he recommended that we wait for the whole report before reacting to his comments.

87
Your Turn / Re: LadyLike Living Biblically
« on: June 20, 2015, 10:42:34 AM »
I nominate this thread for "worst ALPB thread of the year".   I am sure there will be stiff competition.

88
Synodical First VP Mueller was at the Northwest District convention.   He has been heading up a task force about Licensed Lay Deacons that was authorized at the 2013 synodical convention.    He told us the report from the task force will be released in July.  The Northwest District refused to wait for the report and sent in its own overture to the Synod about Lay Deacons.  In the end it will be up to the 2016 synodical convention to make any final determination after considering the report and any overtures on the subject.

89
Your Turn / Re: Prof. Becker goes on the record
« on: April 08, 2015, 06:39:20 PM »
I'm shocked - shocked!  - that Logia would be so critical of Dr. Becker! Who would have thought...
I'm shocked - shocked! - that you would address the source of the review rather than its contents.

P.S.  I see my reply got the lucky number - 666.

90
Your Turn / Re: Prof. Becker goes on the record
« on: April 08, 2015, 04:19:49 PM »
A new review by Dr. Jack Kilcrease of Dr. Becker's book "Fundamental Theology: A Protestant Perspective" may be found here:

http://www.logia.org/logia-online/book-review-fundamental-theology2015

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