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Messages - Harry Edmon

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121
Your Turn / Re: Church Discipline, or Unhealthy Harassment?
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:00:47 PM »
The conflicts that we have in the Missouri Synod often are excessively bitter, venomous, and beyond what the 8th Commandment would call for.  Some of that is because of human cantankerousness.  I wonder if some of that is because many Missouri Synod people live in the snow belt with long harsh winters.  I've read theories that the harsh Russian winters had much to do with shaping the Russian national character.

But some of it is do to the fact that we really care about being faithful to God.  Sometimes that drive to be faithful is expressed badly, even destructively.  The Old Adam in us will try to pervert even the most pious impulses.

Would it be better if we were to regard devotion and faithfulness to God more lightly, of less importance, and so generate less passion in our debates?  Would we rather our people and our pastors and leaders to regard matters of faith as being of less importance, more like a hobby, as so not really care enough about what is being taught and practiced to generate much passion in its defense.  Church as Rotary Club.

The way we interact and the damage we inflict is regrettable and in following Jesus we really need to be more careful that in our anger we do not sin.  But what we debate is important.

Dan
President Harrison has a new posting on Facebook that shows the proper spirit:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=765195303530431&id=271093019607331

122
Your Turn / Re: Unionism & Syncreticism & and Pope
« on: December 15, 2014, 03:41:54 PM »
Dave Likeness writes:
Osteen does not recognize that people suffer ill health as a result of sin...

I ask:
So God gives people cancer or dementia because they sinned?

Does God give people cancer or dementia because of sin? Yes, that is revealed in Scripture.   We all bear the consequences of original sin.

Does God give people cancer or dementia because they have sinned?   The cause and effect of specific sins is part of the hidden will of God (see Job).   Since Scripture does not reveal this, we cannot say.

P.S.  There is no doubt that Osteen's teachings are heretical.   Just listen to him.

123
Your Turn / Re: A Proposed Definition of "Pure Doctrine"
« on: September 17, 2014, 02:52:54 PM »
John,

Do you find the terminology "real presence" in our Symbols? Can you define what you mean by the term?
I did a search on "real presence" in the CPH "Reader's Edition" and it does not occur.   What does occur is the term "bodily presence" several times, e.g. Apology X 55 "We have determined that not only the Roman Church affirms Christ's bodily presence.   The Greek Church also no believes, and formerly believed, the same."

124
Your Turn / Re: Walther's Theses on Law and Gospel
« on: September 09, 2014, 04:08:50 PM »
But that is not what Walther means when he talks about deliberate sins.  Since we are discussing his theses, it is important that we consistently use his terminology in order to avoid muddying the waters.  In context, "those living securely in their sins" (Thesis VIII),  those "still living in mortal sins" (Thesis X), and those who "are still under the spell of ruling sins and sin deliberately" (Thesis XVIII) all refer specifically to people who are sinning and want to keep on sinning; that is, they are unrepentant.

Point taken.  And, if that is how Walther referred to deliberate sins, I do not think he applied the Law rigorously enough in that instance.
Read the book.

125
Your Turn / Re: Walther's Theses on Law and Gospel
« on: September 07, 2014, 11:10:23 PM »
John, please just read the book!

126
Your Turn / Re: ISIS
« on: August 20, 2014, 10:01:02 PM »
Question -  if Islam is a "religion of peace", where is the outrage about this group and their actions from the U.S. Islamic community?

You know, this is the same sort of mindless question anti-pro-life folks regularly toss out: "Where are they after they've talked the mother out of the abortion?"  I invite such people to open the phone book to find "abortion alternatives" and discover that, gee, they're too busy walking with the mothers to be calling press conferences that the newsies ignore anyway because it doesn't fit their prejudice.

What is the "U.S. Islamic community" doing?  Aside from observing that American Muslims are about as much one "community" as "American Christians" are, one could open the phone book and ask some.  Because if they aren't starting a riot, you're not likely to hear about it from the mass media.

Salaam, Steven+
And, yes, I know that Islam is a religion of submission, not peace.
It was not a "mindless" question.   I was somewhat surprised that there had been no report of any reaction from Muslims in this country, so I asked the question.   It was an honest question, I got an great answer with references, and I acknowledged it.  It is unfortunate that the press does not cover this better.

127
Your Turn / Re: ISIS
« on: August 20, 2014, 03:54:57 PM »
Perhaps the first place to start would be to repent of our own sins in the region.
Sins?   America never Sins!  ;)

128
Your Turn / Re: ISIS
« on: August 20, 2014, 02:54:58 PM »
Question -  if Islam is a "religion of peace", where is the outrage about this group and their actions from the U.S. Islamic community?

That's a good question and you are not the only one to note that the American Islamic Community is silent, and I am afraid that they might tacitly approve.  Islam is not what they want others to think they are.  Islam is not a religion of peace.  Islam is a religion of submission. 

Jeremy

http://muslimscondemningthings.tumblr.com/

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/muslim-leaders-reject-baghdadi-caliphate-20147744058773906.html

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/15/arab-press-blasts-islamic-state-militants-for-tarnishing-muslims/

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-muslim-and-christian-groups-condemn-isis-as-anti-islam-2012168

http://www.christianpost.com/news/top-saudi-cleric-joins-muslim-leaders-in-condemning-isis-terrorists-says-they-are-destroying-human-civilization-125113/

There are others.  They tend not to get much press.
Thanks for the links.   I am glad to see these comments from the Islamic community.   I just wish they got more press - it would help the American public (including me) better understand the diversity of views on this group in Islam .

129
Your Turn / Re: ISIS
« on: August 20, 2014, 12:39:05 PM »
Question -  if Islam is a "religion of peace", where is the outrage about this group and their actions from the U.S. Islamic community?

130
Your Turn / Re: ACELC Has A New Video
« on: August 18, 2014, 04:31:53 PM »
Well then it could be, we are not planting the seeds correctly. My wife, a New Jersey master gardener, says when you plant seeds, how are you plant them, how deep you plant them, how close together you plant them, and several other conditions all make a difference in whether not they will grow.
And if it is all up to God anyway, why doesn't God just plant the darned seeds?
Because God in his infinite wisdom and mercy has decided to use means to plant the seeds - sinful human beings like you and me.  Why has He done this, sometimes I wish I knew.   But He does not tell us why, just what we are to do.

131
Your Turn / Re: ACELC Has A New Video
« on: August 18, 2014, 04:29:37 PM »
Joel Osteen packs them in.   Should we therefore assume that his theology is better than ours and that God is the cause of his great numbers?   Or do we apply 2 Tim 4:3-4?

132
Your Turn / Re: ACELC Has A New Video
« on: August 18, 2014, 03:47:06 PM »
Quote
It is fascinating to me that the incident of "A Statement" can arouse such passion 70 years later, so much so that it seems to have remained impossible for anything like an "objective" historical account of it. If that is the case, it is little wonder that we're a long way from an objective account of the whole Preus/Seminex matter. - The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

As time goes on, I think we will have a better perspective of what the whole "Preus/Seminex matter" ended up doing to the LCMS. I think the LCMS needed both moderates and conservatives in the 1970's to stay relevant in doing effective mission and ministry. It is a shame that the "moderate" wing was clipped off, just because the Synod was veering off to the left a little bit more than what was needed. The baby (i.e. cultural relevance and a broader view of adiaphora) was thrown out with the bath water (i.e. a view that the N.T. is not an accurate historical account of Jesus' words and works).
Is it an unspoken assumption that is that the LCMS is not doing effective mission and ministry?   If so, I disagree.

133
Your Turn / Re: "Yes, I'm a Christian, but why am I a Lutheran?"
« on: August 18, 2014, 11:28:48 AM »
Well, your response implied that we are, but logic and reason simply weren't the best tools to do so.  You're now moving the goalposts to claim we are not called to discern God's wisdom at all.

Living by faith, if not discerning God's wisdom, at least is an acceptance of the reality that God's wisdom is not our wisdom.  That's not moving the goalposts.
 

But at some point we are called to determine whether women may be ordained, whether homosexuals may be married....

Really?  Why?
I guess we are not called to determine whether murder, stealing, adultery, etc.  is okay.

134
Your Turn / Re: "Yes, I'm a Christian, but why am I a Lutheran?"
« on: August 17, 2014, 07:37:43 PM »
That's a good point, Mr. Shenks. There just might be too many things in some LC MS congregations that would be hard for refugees from the ELCA to swallow.


Yes, most of the "refugees" from the ELCA created two new denominations rather than unite with the LCMS.
Many of us in the LCMS did not expect the "refugees" from the ELCA to join the LCMS.     The make or break issue with the ELCA for most of them was the issue of homosexuality, not the issue of women pastors.

135
Your Turn / Re: How to Talk about Suicide
« on: August 15, 2014, 11:43:05 PM »
There was an excellent interview on Issues, Etc. this week with Pastor Todd Peperkorn, who has suffered from depression and at one time considered suicide:  http://issuesetc.org/2014/08/12/3-suicide-pr-todd-peperkorn-81214/

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