Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - RDPreus

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 81
1
Your Turn / Re: Christian response to Rittenhouse trial
« on: Yesterday at 12:51:05 PM »
On the topic of white supremacy, this caught my eye on today's news feed  - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-mantra-of-white-supremacy/ar-AARifH0?ocid=msedgntp.

The article tackles the topic of CRT, but in context of the "mantra" which is "anti-racism is anti-white," and how that mantra is the takeaway from all the recent commentary on race. 

Dave Benke
I think this article is as predictable as it claims the "white backlash" against anti-racism is predictable. The author doesn't understand the people being described nearly as well as he thinks he does, and as is predictable, he begins with Fox News and goes on from there to "Trump's base."

What this article does is describe people in sociological terms with the assumptions of one side of the divide as the foundation. In other words, it is an example of how progressives study conservatives. And you can always find quotes somewhere to back up your point when you do that. Just this morning I saw an article linking to a tiktok group of all black people overly and explicitly calling for white genocide. The one man said, "Let me be clear about this so there is no confusion. Yes, I am for white genocide. I think white people need to be eliminated...blah blah blah." But so what? Some doofus on tiktok saying outrageous things? That isn't the basis of anything, much less a serious article But articles like this do it all the time in the other direction. The Proud Boys aren't a thing. They are the equivalent of a group of doofuses on tiktok calling for genocide. The ONLY people who take them seriously are people in the leftwing media who see them as representative of the supposed white supremacy they insist defines the Republican party.

Does not the same thing happen on the conservative side of the aisle in labeling and using mantras and slogans?  That's what Dan is saying in his post.  As far as I'm concerned, for instance, Tucker Carlson is not a representative of a conservative point of view - he's a sloganeer.

Dave Benke
I don't watch Tucker Carlson, but from what I've read of him he seems like a serious conservative thinker. Sloganeering is simply how one identifies, speaks to, and seeks to convince a popular audience. After all, It's Okay to Pray was sloganeering, not serious theology. But it gave people who weren't going to do all the digging into serious theology something identifiable to work with at a popular level. That's what political sloganeering does. And no question is goes in both directions. The cultural problem we have with the press today, though, is that we're an evenly divided country politically, but the mainstream press is entirely on one side of that divide. Any press on the other side is labelled as right wing. And the divide exists at the level of assumptions and worldview. You can't so easily point to the errors of the other side as disagree with what they think is important to begin with. Today on the CNN website there us more about Trump than there is about the Waukesha slaughter. Why? Because the Waukesha slaughter doesn't advance the narrative. If the driver had been wearing a MAGA hat, CNN would be covering nothing else but that slaughter, probably from a booth on location, for months. That is my point about the msn piece you linked to-- what it decides to take seriously, what it views as a threat, what is just assumed to be desirable is from a leftwing vantage, and the effort to actually understand the right wingers falls into easy tropes, like using tiktok people to expound on the dangers of the looking white genocide.

One of the best things that happened at Fox News was when Bill O'Reilly was fired and replaced with Tucker Carlson.

2
Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: November 23, 2021, 10:30:30 PM »
You have the same dark dark spirit of your predecessor, David Anderson, who in Dubuque 50 years ago went on the radio to denounce me and my congregation, calling me un-Lutheran, mocking my motorcycle, and calling my op-Ed article on ecumenism in the Telegraph-Herald a betrayal of the Reformation. He also suggested a pastor who took part in an anti-war demonstration or helped draft resisters should be investigated by police and the FBI.
You carry on his assaults. Be proud.

I greatly admire Rev. Anderson (who was not only my predecessor here in Crookston but also my vicarage supervisor), so I thank you for the comparison.  He was a very good pastor.

Rev. Anderson was my vicarage supervisor, too.  He was a great pastor, a good friend, and a humble and faithful servant of the Word.  I am grateful to have served under him (1977-78).

3
Your Turn / Re: A home for used theological books
« on: November 19, 2021, 05:14:54 PM »
Liquor boxes are usually very good for books. They are general not too large but also usually very sturdy. Liquor stores often have plenty to give away.

Every time we moved I went to a liquor store to get boxes in which to pack my books.  You're right.  They're sturdy and not too big.

4
Your Turn / Re: Once again, in loco parentis
« on: November 08, 2021, 12:15:00 PM »
So, if "children will be taught by other children, regardless of what the teachers or parents might say" then what is the point of teachers teaching pro-homosexual propaganda?  Haven't you just contradicted yourself?  Not that such is anything new for you.  But still.


What you are calling "teaching pro-homosexual propaganda" I would call "teaching what is accepted by American laws." Same-sex marriages are legal in America. Public schools should teach what our laws are.

No, not if the law is evil.  If the law is evil, decent people should teach against it.  Same sex "marriage" is evil.  It is a blasphemous attack on God the Father, Almighty.  Christian parents should not permit representatives of the state to teach their children that homosexuality is okay and same sex "marriage" is valid.  To argue that public schools should teach in accordance with evil laws is to put God's law in a position subordinate to the current positive (civil) law.  This destroys both.  The pro-homosexual agenda is evil.  Its codification in civil law will lead to the utter destruction of the civil authority.  Brian, you and I will be dead and gone, but our grandchildren will live through it.  It won't be pleasant. 

5
Your Turn / Re: Reformation Sunday Observances
« on: November 06, 2021, 12:14:11 AM »
Salvation unto Us Has Come and Dear Christians One and All Rejoice are fantastic hymns best divided in a service.


Interesting: ELW only includes 6 verses for Salvation Unto Us Has Come (10 verses in LSB and 14 in the original by Paul Speratus) and 8 verses for Dear Christians, One and All, Rejoice (10 verses in LW & LSB).


I composed a more folk-style tune for these lyrics (see attached). It can work for either hymn.



I believe the LBW had only 5 verses of Salvation Unto Us Has Come.  We have 10 in the AFLC's Ambassador Hymnal--I assume they're the same 10 as the LSB.  Do you know where I could find an English translation of the entire hymn as written?

The Evangelical Lutheran Hymnary, published by the Evangelical Lutheran Synod in Mankato, Minnesota, has all 14 verses of Salvation Unto Us Has Come.

6
Your Turn / Re: Listing Concerns about Those Other Lutherans
« on: October 30, 2021, 05:21:03 PM »
The issue of homosexuality and same sex "marriage" is settled by the Holy Scriptures.  The Scriptures condemn homosexuality -- both desires and deeds -- very clearly.  God's word also forbids women to serve as pastors.  Whether I or anyone else is a homophobe or a sexist has nothing to do with what the Bible says.  Nor is it relevant to what the Bible says how nice we are to women pastors or same sex couples who think they are married.  My criticism of the ELCA is that it abandons the clear teaching of the Bible when the rules of the popular culture require it.  Just as the old ELC embraced synergism because divine monergism in conversion was disallowed by the religious culture of their day, so today the ELCA embraces women's ordination and the GLBTQ agenda in obedience to the demands of the religious culture of our day.  It's an old story.  The church, seeking to relate to the world, adopts the world's standards, sanctifies them with Christian-sounding language, and claims that the world's standards are Christian.  Remember the sixties?  Remember how the world sets the agenda?  No.  It doesn't.  God does.

Should we show respect to those with whom we disagree?  Of course we should!  I have visited with men in prison who committed heinous crimes.  I showed them respect.  We should show everyone respect.  But what divides the LCMS from the ELCA is not a matter of who respects whom and how much.

7
Your Turn / Re: Is the ALPB Forum Online a safe space?
« on: October 28, 2021, 06:04:06 PM »
Advocating that we be "polite" is nice, but we have varying definitions of what that means. I think "out east" we are a bit more comfortable with forceful words, loud words, even sort-of angry words than some folks in the midwest. Just yesterday, I was having a face-to-face contretemps with a medical supply company, disorganized and slow to deliver, and the woman said, "You don't have to shout."
   I responded, "I'm from New Jersey, that's how we talk, and it's nowhere near shouting."
   In this modest forum, I have tried not to declare someone "un-Lutheran" or "un-Christian" or "un-Biblical," though my language may at times have indicated I find other aspects of their belief and personality to be gravely flawed.
   In covering New Jersey state and local politics, and having covered some DC politicos, I found that - until now - they could rant, rail, and rave about another member of the body during the debate, then go out to dinner together. It wasn't personal. (That may have changed in today's settings.)
   But in church disputes, it is often "personal" or "eternal" or so earth-and-heaven shaking that rancor and nastiness abides.
I mentioned years ago how - when I worked for the Lutheran Council in the USA - Jack Preus came to a 1971 annual meeting and tried to get me and my boss, the great Erik Modean, fired because we had covered the growing troubles in the LCMS. Jack had been on a "world tour" and because the LWF ran our stories, everyone he met asked him about the controversy, which was a story for us because it was causing the LCMS to break fellowship with the ALC.
   His efforts to get us canned failed.
   That night, Erik and I were in a booth near the bar of the Grammercy Park Hotel, when Jack and Milt Carpenter and another LCMS rep came in. They sat at the bar, and in a few minutes Jack left the bar and came to our table. Instantly - while I was preparing to run for cover - Jack and Erik began reminiscing and laughing about some of the "old days" (Erik had been around since the late 1950s) and some of the folks they both knew, including ALPB notable Ade Meyer.) That went on for about an hour and when the last round of drinks came, Jack had our tab put on his bill.
Having grown up in a political family, he knew that opponents in policy need not be deadly enemies. A lot of church folks don't know that.

Having experienced the passive aggressive approach of Minnesota Nice as well as the in your face bluntness of New Jersey (I usually attribute it to New York, but then all those eastern states look the same to me), I will take the latter over the former.  Polite is great!  But clarity and honesty is better.  In Minnesota, "that's interesting" means "you're an idiot!  You don't know what you're talking about."  :)   

8
Your Turn / Re: Is the ALPB Forum Online a safe space?
« on: October 28, 2021, 11:14:11 AM »
I participate on ALPB because it allows me to hear from others with different, sometimes very different, points of view. I learn from the dialogue.

At times it seems like members of the forum see themselves competing to rule the forum. There's a difference between makes one's point well and attempting to shout others down or get them so angry that they turn to the worst rhetoric or vocabulary and get thrown out.

I try not to participate in the tit-for-tat exchanges that make the forum sometimes painful and offensive to read. Secular political discussion seems especially prone to bringing out the talons and teeth, so I generally stay away from those topics.

I am a firm LCMS conservative but with politeness I find that I can communicate positively with the more liberal participants. I would encourage all members of the forum to practice simple politeness. It will make a better forum, which may grow more interesting to those currently not participating.

I resonate with this from the other side of the fence.  I have been posting here for a long time, and found much that is insightful and engaging.  That said, I have also pointed out to the moderators a time or two that there is a definite tone here when it comes to discussing the church body of which I am a part.  I try to be respectful of other church bodies represented here, and would hope others do the same.  If you expect me not to paint the LCMS with the broad brush of your fringes, I would like to be able to expect the same in regards to the ELCA.  All too often this does not happen, and when Charles or Brian or others point it out we are brushed off.

Thank you, Peter.

This is especially relevant:

" If you expect me not to paint the LCMS with the broad brush of your fringes, I would like to be able to expect the same in regards to the ELCA.  All too often this does not happen, and when Charles or Brian or others point it out we are brushed off."

Peace, JOHN   ;D
The issue, though, is that our "fringe" is not so fring-y anymore, by a long shot. Unfair characterizations should be called out and argued, sure. Hence the "forum." But at the same time, we ought not be too quick to cry foul or claim mistreatment when someone calls a thing what it is (NB: I'm certainly not saying that this is what you're doing at all, Pr. Morlock, but it happens pretty regularly around here). The truth hurts.

My thoughts:

It's a forum. When it's good, it's very good. Those who have been here a while (pretty much all of us) know what the issue is, and that it won't go away, team loyalty being what it is. Makes me sad, for I miss the old days; but what can you do?

So argue your point. Don't make it personal. Take the "L" when you've earned it. Don't be a troll. And don't feed trolls. It's hard, but ignore. Don't fuel the pathology--and it is a pathology.

RPG+

Fair, except that my larger point was that all too often when my church body is discussed broad labels like Heterodox etc. are tossed around.  When discussing things like those LCMS churches that have difficulty with women lectors, those of us not of your group are repeatedly cautioned not to judge the whole of the LCMS by those, nor do I judge the whole LCMS by the actions of the young local LCMS pastor who regularly sends letters to my members telling them they are bound for hell,, but every time NBW opens her mouth there is gleeful pouncing and rehashing again of all  the many ways that the ELCA has fallen into its own ditch and we are all tarred with that same brush.  I'm all for vigorous theological debate and discussion.  I would prefer that we leave condemnations and broad generalities out of the discussion.

Do you think it is fair to compare us who oppose women lectors on biblical grounds to those who send letters to your parishioners telling them they are bound for hell?

9
Your Turn / Re: Is the ALPB Forum Online a safe space?
« on: October 26, 2021, 04:54:10 PM »
Based on what I have seen, I think the moderators do a good job here.  I very much appreciate Peter Speckhard's posts, not just because I agree with them, which I usually do, but because he writes well.  I also enjoy Charles Austin's posts, even though I often disagree with him.  On the matter of what is Christian and unchristian, I think we should distinguish between a position and a person.  Concerning abortion, I would not hesitate to say that the "pro-choice" position is unchristian.  This does not mean that I would judge that a person who advocates it cannot be a Christian.  I remember Francis Pieper's "felicitous inconsistency" where a person holds to an unchristian teaching but does not follow it to its logical conclusion.  Christians often hold to unchristian opinions.  It is no minor matter when one does.  But to say that someone holds to a position that cannot be tolerated in the church is not to judge him to be outside of the church.

10
Your Turn / Re: Columbus Day and evangelism
« on: October 22, 2021, 01:16:54 PM »
As a Norwegian American growing up on the campus of the German American dominated St. Louis seminary, attending German dominated schools, I suffered, as you can all imagine, subtle discrimination.  It was thinly veiled and deeply bigoted.  They didn't know any better.  It was part of a system of thinking and acting that sent the unmistakable message to us of Norwegian descent: "You don't matter."  On Columbus Day at Bethel Lutheran School in University City I told the teacher that Leif Erikson discovered America 500 years before Columbus did.  The teacher corrected me on my pronunciation of the name "Leif" (insisting that it was pronounced "leef") and when I (very respectfully!) explained to him that I had lived in Norway and had known boys named "Leif" and the name is pronounced "life", he sneered at me and insulted Leif Erikson, the Norwegians in general, and anybody else who didn't embrace the imposed doctrine that Christopher Columbus discovered America. 

And now we have proof!  Yes, proof!  Oh, I know that you Germans will dismiss it, say it's irrelevant, and continue in your studied disrespect of all things Scandinavian, but we will know the truth, that Leif (pronounced "life") Erikson discovered America, and that, unlike Christopher Columbus who thought he would find India, of all places, Erikson knew where he was.  So he didn't stay.  So what?  He had other places to see!

Ja, vi elsker dette landet . . .

And yet all along the way your specific genetic Norwegian family was plotting in the way Vikings have for lo these thousand years plus to find a way to traverse the rivers and streams of the Missouri Synod and take the whole thing over by techniques of church-political and indoctrination warfare strategy developed in the Boundary Waters and, in the old days, along the fjords of the Homeland. 

Most of us Krauts bumbled along thinking your tribe could not possibly succeed in dominating the framework of our Teutonic structures.  Yours is of course a more rigid framework, as befits those ancient seagoing vessels.  In the long run, the patriarchal rigidity of the theological enterprise will crack and what's left will be mostly in ashes.  Crumbled have spire in every land. But the die has been cast.  As the writer has written, "It's too late to worry/and I'm too blue to cry."  Bourbon softens the blow.

Dave Benke

It was easy!  The Germans thought that Preus was a German name.  By the time they figured out the Preuses were Norwegian, it was too late.

Too late!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTds0422x7g

11
Your Turn / Re: Columbus Day and evangelism
« on: October 22, 2021, 12:12:01 PM »
As a Norwegian American growing up on the campus of the German American dominated St. Louis seminary, attending German dominated schools, I suffered, as you can all imagine, subtle discrimination.  It was thinly veiled and deeply bigoted.  They didn't know any better.  It was part of a system of thinking and acting that sent the unmistakable message to us of Norwegian descent: "You don't matter."  On Columbus Day at Bethel Lutheran School in University City I told the teacher that Leif Erikson discovered America 500 years before Columbus did.  The teacher corrected me on my pronunciation of the name "Leif" (insisting that it was pronounced "leef") and when I (very respectfully!) explained to him that I had lived in Norway and had known boys named "Leif" and the name is pronounced "life", he sneered at me and insulted Leif Erikson, the Norwegians in general, and anybody else who didn't embrace the imposed doctrine that Christopher Columbus discovered America. 

And now we have proof!  Yes, proof!  Oh, I know that you Germans will dismiss it, say it's irrelevant, and continue in your studied disrespect of all things Scandinavian, but we will know the truth, that Leif (pronounced "life") Erikson discovered America, and that, unlike Christopher Columbus who thought he would find India, of all places, Erikson knew where he was.  So he didn't stay.  So what?  He had other places to see!

Ja, vi elsker dette landet . . . 

12
Your Turn / Re: Reflections of a pro-life Democrat
« on: October 21, 2021, 01:31:10 PM »
Things like immigration law, universal healthcare, and universal pre-K are political issues on which Christians will disagree.  I believe a lax policy on illegal immigration, government controlled healthcare, and universal pre-K education are bad policy, that is, they do harm.  Since I believe the government should do no harm, I oppose such policies on moral grounds.  Rev. Benke and I share the same moral beliefs.  He, for moral reasons, favors what I, for moral reasons oppose.  This is a good argument for us preachers to leave such matters as immigration, government controlled health care, and universal pre-K out of our preaching.  But the deliberate killing of an unborn baby is a different matter.  This is why I don't believe that we should ever vote for any "pro-choice" candidate regardless of who else is on the ticket.  While I disagree with Rev. Benke on immigration, health care, pre-K education, and perhaps many other things, I would not attack his position on these issues as unchristian.  I would, however, argue that a pro-choice position on abortion is incompatible with the faith that we share.

13
Your Turn / Re: Reflections of a pro-life Democrat
« on: October 21, 2021, 10:03:11 AM »
How many Democrats are there in the U. S. House of Representatives?  Is there one among them who is pro-life?

14
Your Turn / Re: MO District Pastors Conference "Joy in Ministry"
« on: October 20, 2021, 11:15:25 PM »
The Minnesota North Fall Pastoral Conference was held at our district's camp (as we almost always do).  The speaker was one of the district pastors.  So, you gotta figure costs were about as small as they could be.

I was unable to attend, but I heard it was quite good.

15
Your Turn / Re: One Year Lectionary?
« on: October 18, 2021, 02:23:17 PM »
There are many advantages of the one year lectionary, but I will comment only on one of them.  Repetition is the mother of learning.  We know that the Ordinary of the service are memorized by repeated use.  So are the propers.  Just once a year over many years imprints them on our minds and hearts.  Once every three years is not enough.  Once a year for seventy years is quite a bit of repetition!  As we age and forget unimportant things, what was repeated to us again and again over the years will remain.  Of course, it also helps if the Bible translation and the hymns translations don't change.  But I suppose that's asking too much.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 81