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Messages - Donald_Kirchner

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Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 25, 2023, 08:22:12 AM »
This book was not produced in a corner. It was a three year process, led by the CTCR under the editorship of John Pless and Larry Vogel--both of whom are thoroughly orthodox. Prof. Pless stated, on this board, that there was a triple review system in place: the CTCR, the President's Office, and the normal doctrinal review. I would think that would be enough checks on the theology in the volume.

Prez H was very effusive in his praise of the book in his forward: "Dear Reader, You have before you one of the greatest resources for Christian faith and living ever produced by The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod. ... Thank you, Concordia Publishing House! Thank you, Chairman Larry Rast and all the members of the Commission on Theology and Church Relations! Thank you, Joel Lehenbauer and Rick Serina. Thank you, Larry Vogel and John Pless for serving as general editors! Thank you, in memoriam Paul T. McCain, whom the Lord used to advance this project at Concordia Publishing House. Paul’s unending love for God’s Word and Luther’s pure teaching caused him to spend much of his life getting the treasured texts of the Lutheran faith into the hands of readers around the globe. Finally, thank you to all the contributors, men and women from diverse places and races, scholars, pastors, teachers, and practitioners of the biblical, Lutheran faith. If we had but this volume alone, in addition to our precious inerrant Scriptures and the Book of Concord, we’d have reason to fall on our faces before God and sing a grateful Te Deum."

The LCMS FB page just posted this from Matt Harrison:

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus. In light of the concerns raised, I have asked CPH to cease distribution of the new annotated Large Catechism. This will allow us time to evaluate the comments and critiques received and revisit our doctrinal review process, which is my responsibility. We steadfastly proclaim Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sinners and stand forgiven and unafraid, committed to Jesus Christ and His inerrant Scriptures in the face of all cultural opposition.

Maybe he thinks he won't have a majority of votes without "Gottesdienst" support. Like the Speaker of the House election.

Wow! How'd you ever come up with that idea, John Hannah?  😆

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 09:43:03 PM »
Pr Bohler,

That's what I meant about the illogic. So what?

Thank you, Jim Butler. You saved me a lot of finger typing on my Kindle. 😄

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 08:57:33 PM »
Hasn't President Harrison found some elements of nascent "wokeism" in his visitation of several of our Concordia schools?  Has he not written about this?  Perhaps those experiences led him to make his decision to put a hold on this book until further review could be completed.  That is, his decision was a matter of principle rather than political expediency.

Well, that illogic is faint support for a matter of principle rather than political expediency.

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:55:36 PM »
In his essay, Naomichi Masaki writes, "The center of numerical growth of Christians has shifted from the Northern to the Southern Hemisphere, particularly Africa. European and North American churches senselessly impose “social justice” agendas upon these younger churches to maintain their supremacy." One blogger accused Masaki of supporting a woke agenda and an attack on "whiteness." I read just the opposite. I was reminded of Obare's essay of many years ago of how the Lutheran World Federation was trying to push its agenda on more conservative Lutherans in Africa.

Dr. Masaki was doing grad work at Sem StL when I was there. He was the liturgist at my ordination. I have met few confessional Lutherans more conservative than he. I remember him sparring with Voelz, taking a more conservative view on an issue.

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:16:55 PM »
Don, you seem to think I'm criticizing Matt. I'm not.

No, I'm not.** Actually, I think you're doing the opposite, particularly with your quibbling, i.e., "It was reviewed by the president's (sic) OFFICE."

**You would never want to be seen doing that! After all, you're on a first-name basis with him.

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 12:56:42 PM »

So, you are saying that President Harrison did not do a thorough enough job the first time to catch these supposed errors or put his stamp of doctrinal review approval to something he did not review?

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 12:28:01 PM »
I think the president's office has constitutional authority for doctrinal oversight. So stepping in is in keeping with that. Looks like a precautionary measure.

That might be so, but it appears that he already exercised his "doctrinal oversight."

Biggest lie being circulated is that the book did not go through doctrinal review. As a matter of fact it passed through three separate doctrinal review processes: (1) the whole CTCR: (2) the President's Office; and (3) the standard doctrinal review process. [emphasis added]

What changed? Oh, right...

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 24, 2023, 08:53:27 AM »
Well, it is going to be 25 below zero by the end of the week here in Bemidji! 😉

I agree with Charles' and Little Ben's observations. Yup. Went to the CPH website to buy the Kindle version. Can't find it. I guess someone's protecting me and the Synod of which I'm a member. 🙄

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 23, 2023, 11:11:31 PM »
Guess its election/nomination season. Cant have the confessional guys bifurcated. I wonder how much it costs in money and even more good will to put tjise books aside.

Indeed. Blatant pandering.

Your Turn / Re: Americans Who Identify As Christians In Decline
« on: January 23, 2023, 06:09:54 PM »
Were the people who back then “identified“ as Christians any more active in their faith than those who today don’t identify as anything?

Uh, yeah! The former includes church-goers, etc. And you. 

Your Turn / Re: I Need Some Catechism Help
« on: January 23, 2023, 05:28:11 PM »
I read something about this by Gottesdienst on a FB site early this morning. The writer seemed fixated on "excrement," so I gave it its due, did a quick skim of his rant and "round filed" it.

Many of the theologians that participated in forming this book are those for whom I have great respect, from seminary and on. That includes the co-editor, John Pless. So, I definitely will purchase this volume.

Your Turn / Re: The Hateful March for Life
« on: January 23, 2023, 01:07:24 PM »
You have no idea what’s in my heart.

Ah, but we do, Charles, time and time again. Your posts manifest what is in your heart.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

Your Turn / Re: The Hateful March for Life
« on: January 23, 2023, 09:07:38 AM »
Charles is back in true form! Manifesting the woke spin, complete with the initial ad hominem, putting the least construction in  claiming sexism, and the woke euphemism, characterizing abortion as women's health.  ::)

Your Turn / Re: The Hateful March for Life
« on: January 20, 2023, 11:48:52 PM »
Hey guys! The topic has a religious-related theme. Charles’ knee-jerk reaction was to respond with pure political blather. And Dan, you took the bait, responding in kind.

Can we keep on focus?

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: January 20, 2023, 05:34:14 PM »
The point Brian and I are trying to make is that “learning” comes in different ways and that our children, if they are adversely affected by pandemic situations, are just facing the rigors of Life. Our cozy, untroubled world got shaken up. Deal with it.

That's the most hard-hearted, uncompassionate post I've read this year, but we're only 20 days in.  ::)

Hey, bombs aren't falling on you, so buck up kids!  :o

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