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Messages - The Yak

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Your Turn / Re: Reflections of a pro-life Democrat
« on: October 24, 2021, 06:21:15 PM »

And my response to you is also Q.E.D.  You prove my point that you can't even begin to respond to pro-life arguments because you have no response.  You have no way to justify killing innocent children in the womb.  Even though being pregnant can be a challenge, no civilized society (much less a CHRISTIAN) should suggest killing a child as an option.  Instead, we support the mother through her pregnancy and then, if she and the father can't keep the child, we give the child up for adoption.  If you argue that adopting out their child can be emotionally difficult for the parents, that may be.  But their "emotional difficulty" does not trump the child's life!

Simply put, you have no good arguments that support killing a child in the womb simply because he or she is not wanted and would require some amount of sacrifice on the part of the parents.

Indeed, Tom.  Q.E.D.

Your Turn / Re: Sunni---Shia Conflict
« on: October 15, 2021, 10:23:59 AM »
What precisely is the cause of violence between Sunnis and Shias?

The killing / martyrdom of Husayn at Karbala.

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: October 06, 2021, 10:21:35 PM »
A: No it isn't. My wife and most of my kids got Covid, and it amounted to the sniffles, not death.

For me and my wife, it was much more significant, and we had no underlying health conditions nor were we particularly old (I'm pretty sure we're about the same age as you).  We seem to have fully recovered and were not hospitalized, but it was one of the worst experiences of a disease in my life, and I'm sure my wife would say the same thing.  A coworker of my wife's was in the hospital for a couple weeks gasping for breath.

We had tried to get the vaccine beforehand but were unable to do so.  Afterwards, we now are vaccinated plus enjoying the benefit of having natural immunity.  I'm pretty excited about that given the studies coming out regarding the strength of natural immunity from having recovered from the virus + receiving a vaccine.

In any case, I wouldn't wish the disease on my worst enemy. It's severity might not be death for everyone who gets it, but minimizing it helps no one and is, frankly, frustrating to read.

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: September 28, 2021, 11:17:43 AM »

If you bothered to read any actual conservatives or libertarians, you’d see them to be especially interested in science. Be it space exploration, nuclear power, GMOs, and hard science stuff or “soft science” about human behavior, gender studies, etc, it is usually the left cherry-picking what counts as “science” by defining the leftist position as the osiruon of science. There are people who think biological sex is a construct. They are all anti-science, and they are all on the left. Same with the biology of life’s origins. The pro-choice position is anti-science. The whole reputation of the right being anti science stems mainly from the global warming debate.

I understand the political sympathies and the preference for conservative and Republican views. I don't understand the denials of plain facts. But I guess we have to live with it. (I don't know what theological value belongs to either end of the debate. Seems to me to be none whatsoever.)

Peace, JOHN
Plain facts: human life begins at conception. Biological sex is a matter of objective reality, not a construct. The standard NYT shtick that the GOP is anti-science is really just a matter of trusting the establishment. Rand Paul is a better scientist than Fauci. He regularly points out the real science that contradicts Fauci's propaganda. Sen. Paul is not anti-science, he is anti-Fauci's BS. But for readers of the NYT, to gainsay Fauci is to be anti-science.

Agreed on conception.

Not agreed otherwise. Senator Paul's view is not shared by 99% of physicians.

Still, neither understanding has anything to do with church, theology, Lutheran, or the purpose of this Forum.

Peace, JOHN

I'm not sure about physicians, but based on a University of Chicago study, 95% of biologists agree that life begins at fertilization:

As the document points out, the operative question is when the fetus deserves legal consideration.  IMO, this question was answered in the the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

Nope. Both the sperm and the egg have to be living for there to be fertilization. That is, "life" has to exist before fertilization. Biblically, and somewhat through history,  "life" was thought to begin when the beings were given "the breath of life." Even today, "viability" is somewhat defined as when fetuses are able to breath on their own outside the womb.

At conception, a separate, whole and distinct human person is brought into existence.  Shorthand that how you will, it happens well before the baby is able to breathe on its own outside the womb.

Yes, at conception, a separate, whole and distinct human DNA is created. (It can even happen in a petri dish!) However, unless it is implanted properly in a woman's womb, it will not survive. If it is implanted and the mother (another separate, whole and distinct human) dies, so will the child. It is not a viable human being. It cannot live on its own. If the fetus dies and is not removed, the decaying body can poison and kill the mother. For about nine months, it shares a life with the mother. It is not a separate life.

What is a "separate, whole and distinct human DNA?"  Is the human person somehow separable from the human body?  And what is a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby but a whole and distinct human body?

It seems your anthropology, if applied to Our Lord, could quickly slip into Nestorianism, a charge that has been leveled at you before.  I'd advise thinking this through a bit.  That's not to mention the rank utilitarianism in your last several sentences.  And that is not to mention the sophistry of considering a separate, whole and distinct human organism to be something other than a "human being."  Viability is largely a legal construct.  It simply means the separate, whole and distinct human organism (in other words, a human person) cannot live on its own outside the womb.  But the same is true for infants lacking material support, so your argument ends up folding itself into infanticide, since there is no logical reason to grant rights at "viability" if one instead wishes to grant them at "ability to work and produce," and so we can argue that prior to the age children can be totally self-sufficient, we can kill them.
It also means we can kill the handicapped, since many of them are not able to be self-sufficient and thus are not viable. I hear some people argue for abortion in the case of incest on the grounds that it leads to birth defects and I always ask why they think people with birth defects can be killed.

I only check in here occasionally (though as long-timers here will know, I've been involved on this board for over a decade and a half), and I have Brian on "ignore" so I don't read his stuff unless it is quoted like it is above because I don't take him as a serious interlocutor.

That said, in agreement with Peter, the line of argument he uses justifies lots of atrocities, and if you are consistent, you need to accept those atrocities as well.  An article came out a decade ago in the Journal of Medical Ethics seriously arguing for "after birth abortions" (infanticide) of healthy children.  The authors' logic is in agreement with Brian's logic. 

Here's the article, and I include the abstract below:

"Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled."

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: September 26, 2021, 07:41:17 PM »
James S. Rustad:
And perhaps we should stop worrying about those who don't get vaccinated as they will soon be immune anyway.
Or dead.
That would get them out of your hair and no longer troubling your well regulated society.

There is a significant percentage of the population rooting for just this.

[[BTW, as a general statement, get vaccinated]]

Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Creationists
« on: July 31, 2021, 03:31:48 PM »

This is how the zombie apocalypse starts... ;)

This is a grave accusation.

Tom Pearson

I'm always shambling to one conclusion or another.

Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Creationists
« on: July 31, 2021, 11:37:50 AM »
Oh, and to step over the line to the "Coronavirus News" thread -- Isaacson's The Code Breaker also details the work being done on CRISPR that is dedicated to defeating the coronavirus and its many progeny.  The technology is being developed to edit the human genetic germline so that it attacks the DNA of the virus and disables it.  This could be done by editing the germline in human sperm, ova, or embryos.  Editing the germline means that the genome is permanently altered (well, as "permanent" as evolution allows), and passed on then to subsequent generations.

Do we have a problem here?

Tom Pearson

This is how the zombie apocalypse starts... ;)

Your Turn / Re: Seminary Education
« on: March 17, 2021, 01:35:24 PM »
Then as the nursing programs have jumped way up the ladder, a question is whether those programs and the necessary certifications can and should include strong religious offerings, or maybe that's already been done. 

Yes, it is. At CUAA all nurses have to take the following courses as part of their curriculum: REL 100 - The Bible; REL 110 - The Christian Faith; and REL 376 - Christian Ethics.

Your Turn / Re: Nominees for Concordia Seminary President Announced
« on: February 21, 2021, 06:23:06 PM »
Going back to the discussion of Zoom backgrounds, for those who want to look as pretentious as possible with as little actual investment as possible, there is always Books by the Foot.

Your Turn / Re: Professor Fretheim
« on: November 18, 2020, 11:59:31 AM »
Professor Terry Fretheim, long time Old Testament Professor and scholar at Luther Seminary entered the church triumphant yesterday.  I took many classes from him during my time at Luther (1990-1994.)  I appreciate his wisdom and the things that I learned from him.

I'm greatly saddened to hear this.  I lived in Terry's house for a year when I attended Luther in the mid to late '90s.  Memory eternal.

My oldest recently received his Eagle Scout, and my middle son is currently a patrol leader in our local troop.  My youngest, a Webelo, will most likely also participate.  We have never had a problem with our local troops, from Virginia to Washington to Michigan.  It remains a fantastic experience for boys.

Your Turn / Re: Election 2020
« on: October 09, 2020, 01:54:17 PM »
These are the recent activities of the President who is running for re-election. People can decide whether they mean anything or not.
-On Thursday he berated members of his cabinet for not prosecuting or going after his political enemies.
-He called Senator Kamala Harris, running for Vice President, a “monster” and a “communist.”
-He pulled out of the next presidential debate because of the restrictions the bi-partisan debate committee placed on the debate because of the virus.
-He talked his doctor into “releasing” him to have a campaign rally two days earlier than the doctor had allowed and earlier than is usual for people who have been infected to be in public.
-Of his infection and the virus he said “when you catch it” you get better. (But more than 210,000 people didn’t)
-He has not been seen in person since Monday. But has released videos and gone on ranting telephone interviews with favored media.
-He said that Attorney General William Barr would go down in history as “a very sad situation” if he did not indict Joe Biden and Barack Obama. "Unless Bill Barr indicts these people for crimes, the greatest political crime in the history of our country, then we’re going to get little satisfaction unless I win and we’ll just have to go, because I won’t forget it,” Mr. Trump said, referring to the investigation into his 2016 campaign ties with Russia. “But these people should be indicted. This was the greatest political crime in the history of our country, and that includes Obama and it includes Biden.”
-He wants Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to release Hilary Clinton’s emails and said “I’m not happy with him for that reason.”
-Of Christopher Wray, the FBI director he appointed, he said “He’s been disappointing.”
-He said he has pressured Barr to indict his enemies. When told there needs to be more evidence, he said, “you don’t need any more.”
-He made two phone calls to Fox News, saying he wanted to bring troops home from Afghanistan so they could be ready to fight Russia or China.
-He called Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, the “lockup queen” even as the FBI was arresting people charged with a conspiracy to kill her.
-He told Fox Business that Biden “wouldn’t be president for two months’ because “he’s not mentally capable.” Of Harris, he said “we’re going to have a communist.”
-He reposted Twitter messages charging House Speaker Nancy Pelosi with orchestrating a “coup” against him.
-A White House spokesman had to walk back the declaration he made that someone in the meeting with Gold Star parents probably infected him.
-Sen. Mitch McConnell said he was boycotting the White House because of lax enforcement of health protocols and that he had not been there since Aug. 6.
-In a video addressed to senior citizens, he said, “To my favorite people in the world, the seniors,” he said in the video. “I’m a senior. I know you don’t know that. Nobody knows that. Maybe you don’t have to tell them. But I’m a senior.”

And still - STILL - you are not bothered (and have made NO comments at all) about the recently declassified documents showing that the whole Russian collusion was a hoax perpetrated by HRC to take the heat off her own email scandal, paid for by her, with the full knowledge of then POTUS Obama and VP Biden.

Oh yeah:  I forgot that most of the mainstream media isn't even bothering to report on that, so I'm sure you've not even seen it, given the circles you run in.

So I guess it's easier to keep running off lists of things the president has done, always adding your own TDS spin to them...   ::)

Nothing to see here, folks... move along.

The Washington Post gives the report of Clinton orchestrating the Russian investigation four Pinnochios.

So, you're right. There's nothing to see here, folks.
Notice how they answer what Nunes said instead of the actual documents in question. Deflectors up!

The article is also from the beginning of 2018.  Lots more has come out, including Brennan's hand-written notes.

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: October 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM »
Let's see what the pro-life people say about his plan to create and give "everybody" a vaccine created from embryonic stem cells.

"Created from embryonic stem cells" glosses over far too much.  There are some candidates out there where embryonic stem cells were used at some point in the development, but the realities are far more complex.

Here's a helpful, well-sourced article written from a Catholic perspective on the ethics of using the proposed vaccines.

Your Turn / Re: Coronavirus news
« on: October 03, 2020, 12:51:32 PM »
Peter writes:
I would have been inclined to have us all get it at once and get it over with rather than gave it trickle through the household, but I doubt that would have been an option. It never even occurred to me to worry about my daughter’s long term health. It simply isn’t really dangerous for healthy young people.
I comment:
First, I find it a little creepy that you would say "let's all get sick and get it over with" when the sickness has a chance of being fatal and is possibly preventable. Furthermore, we don’t know what the concerns might be for the long-term health of those infected. We don’t know. Then just because it isn’t “really” dangerous for young people is not the deal. We know that young people have been very sick and died.

Suicide and drug overdose death rates have risen to the point that they are a greater threat to young people than Covid.

Your Turn / Re: Election 2020
« on: September 09, 2020, 10:56:33 AM »
Just checked the CNN website. Headline and seven stories about Trump, all negative including things like people at his rallies not wearing masks. No mention of a nomination for the Nobel Prize. So the narrative seems unfazed.

And of course, the nomination is with considerable cause.  Brokering the peace deal between Israel and UAE is perhaps the biggest step forward in improving Middle East relations in a generation and will likely lead to more and more normalization of relations with Israel by other Arab states.  It's pretty remarkable.

Especially as compared with Obama's Nobel for, well, what?

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