Messages

1

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: Yesterday at 12:42:43 PM »

Pastor Fienen wrote at the start of this thread:
I find one aspect of the coverage of the recent tragic mass shooting in Nashville especially disturbing. That is the quickness with which some officials and some commentators exploit this tragedy for their own political ends. Immediately, some have jumped on this event as justification for new and more restrictive gun laws.
I comment:
I find nothing surprising nor upsetting about that; because there is nothing wrong with "their own political ends," ends whch have been expressed elsewhere and for a long long long time. What do you think people should notice after a mass shooting? The color of the killer's clothing?

Pastor Fienen:
AR 15s have come in for special concern even though apparently the guns used were not AR 15s. But why let a good tragedy go to waste when it can be exploited for one's cause.
Me:
See above. And is it horrible that "one's cause" might be preventing the murders of school children and their teachers?

Pastor Fienen:
Those who immediately protest against such laws are little better. The facts are that police and other officials have only begun their investigation into what motivated the shooter and how the guns were obtained.
Me:
Yes, we await a lot of information, none of which will change the fact that people are dead, ripped apart by military-style weapons by someone who probably should not have been allowed to drive a car, let alone possess an arsenal.
And BTW, weren't we glad to hear the commendations for the police who immediately rushed towards the gunfire rather than stand around in a hallway wondering what they could do so that they would not get hurt?

2

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: Yesterday at 12:35:33 PM »

It's not a big "what's important" declaration of eternal value and super-duper things.
it is only a wry comment on the fact that there are people stirred up about certain books, pronouns, story-tellers and a classic Renaissance statue. When those things are not killing children.
For the sake of Aunt Gertie's Goat, take the meme as a one-line tigglededoo, not a proposition for debate.

3

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: Yesterday at 11:37:15 AM »

Pastor Kirchner, you know there are studies showing that stricter gun control can reduce these incidents, but we will not discuss them calmly here.
I’m just reminding gun owners what “self defense” means. You agree to kill someone and take the risks attached to that decision.
Amusing meme floating around today:

Things that didn’t kill kids today:
Books
Drag Queens
Pronouns
Statue of David

4

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: Yesterday at 09:44:05 AM »

And I have said before, if you choose a gun for self-defense, you make the prior decision to kill with it. and you take upon yourself what comes from that, including the possibilities of killing the wrong person or killing a person for the wrong reasons.

5

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: March 30, 2023, 10:33:56 AM »

P.S. and we know, now that the intent of the people on Fox News was not to tell the truth, but to pander to an audience and to say things that they knew were not true.

6

Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings

« on: March 30, 2023, 10:30:34 AM »

Flash news, Mr. Spatz.
Sometimes reporters are thrown into situations where they don’t have the proper training or background or or sometimes they are just incredibly stupid. It happens a lot, and the individual reporter (but not the entire enterprise) ends up looking like an idiot.
Sometimes Lutheran pastors or Lutheran lay people are thrown into situations where they don’t have the proper training or background or sometimes they are just incredibly stupid. It happens a lot and the individual pastor (but not all clergy) or Lutheran (but not all laypeople) ends up looking like an idiot.
Ain’t life fun?

7

Your Turn / Re: Pope Francis' Telegram to Nashville

« on: March 29, 2023, 11:26:21 AM »

Good words from the Pope.

8

Your Turn / Re: "Something must be done!!" Are we sure about that?

« on: March 28, 2023, 05:21:03 PM »

Yours aren’t the only answers I would like to hear, Pastor Kirchner. And I find your reasons - “to shoot tyrants” - non-responsive.

9

Your Turn / Re: "Something must be done!!" Are we sure about that?

« on: March 28, 2023, 04:28:18 PM »

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. James Rustad. I am not in favor of banning all guns.
You tell me, James Rustad, what is killing our neighbors and our children.  And what should we do about these multiple killings?
Somebody tell me why people want to own these particular guns.

10

Your Turn / Re: "Something must be done!!" Are we sure about that?

« on: March 28, 2023, 11:59:24 AM »

Well, we discussed suffrage for women for about 70 years. We talked voting rights for at least 30 years. We have been talking about poor people for 100+ years, and we talked civil rights for sexual minorities for at least 50 years. Racism talks got serious about 1954 and were still at it.
 I don’t think there’s a need to fear that we will act too quickly.

11

Your Turn / Re: Here's a Way to Control Guns

« on: March 28, 2023, 11:51:41 AM »

Ok, so get that Kel-Tec off the streets, too. Is there really a humanitarian or moral matter at stake in getting the brand or model of the killer weapon exactly right? So God bless the AR-Whatever, it wasn’t used… … this time.

12

Your Turn / Re: Here's a Way to Control Guns

« on: March 28, 2023, 11:03:31 AM »

We have had other amendments to the constitution. Some were new. And some were later repealed. The constitution is not holy scripture, it can be and has been changed.
And what do you suggest we do to reduce gun violence?

13

Your Turn / Re: Here's a Way to Control Guns

« on: March 28, 2023, 09:58:36 AM »

I continue to marvel at the ways in which old arguments, a romanticism of guns, and a fanaticism about owning them manages let people manage to avoid any serious discussion about what to do concerning gun violence. Your first concern is always  the guns and their owners, and the second amendment, which, by the way, is not in the Bible. Shouldn’t the first concern be the victims of gun violence? Now there’s something which is in the Bible.

14

Your Turn / Re: Here's a Way to Control Guns

« on: March 28, 2023, 04:02:42 AM »

Gun control is easier than "insane" people control. And dozens of shooters do not make the "insane" spectrum.
I have said this before. I do not oppose hunting. I do not oppose firing range shooting. My relatives hunt. I don't understand firing range shooting of combat weapons but... I think much rhetoric about guns for self-defense is romantic wish-thinking, but...
Why is it so easy for so many people to obtain - without difficulty - the weapons we are discussing. And I don't care whether they really meet military specs or are better or worse than people in uniform use. Why do civilians want or need these types of weapons? Why can we not make sale or ownership of some types of guns illegal?
Folks here say we have laws on these things. They obviously aren't working. Make them tougher. Make the penalties stiffer.
And fund - massively fund - anti-violence programs, mental health programs, give-up-your guns programs. Go after the manufacturers of guns for funding. Go after parents and others who put guns in the hands of children.
At least we who preach and teach the faith should have a clear plan on teaching non-violence, the morality of "self-defense" the morality of our attitudes towards protecting our lives and properties. Our actions in civil society should support plans aimed at reducing gun violence.
And we should make known our concern for the violence fostered by "heroes" of television and movie franchises.
Would alll or any of these things stop all mass killings? Probably not, but - in the name of Aunt Gertie's goat - they might stop some. Maybe some six-year old, some school teacher, some cop, some mall shopper might get to live longer.
Second Amendment arguments get us nowhere.

15

Your Turn / Re: Here's a Way to Control Guns

« on: March 28, 2023, 12:04:30 AM »

I don’t care whether those weapons that are out there killing our children are actual equals of military weaponry or not. I, and a lot of very sensible people, just want them gone.
It is a ridiculous diversion and dodging the issue to contend that they’re not “really“ like military weapons. Seems to me they’re close enough.
And once more I ask: who wants to own these things and why? And why should we let them?